[Jordan]

I'm not one to take stuff too seriously. Civillian is a smart guy with interesting stuff to say and I don't take his comments as some sort of attack. He is a good at debate, more so than me at least.

Anyways, I'm doing shitty at school right now so I gotta hit the books like a mad man. (its insane how long I can spend just posting and reading stuff on Lanceandeskimo and this place)

I need to sign off the forums for awhile. So with that I will be back later this year. I enjoy chatting with everyone and hope to see you all soon. Take care and God bless.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 21 February 2004 - 02:30 AM

[civilian_number_two]

I'm not one to take stuff too seriously. Civillian is a smart guy with interesting stuff to say and I don't take his comments as some sort of attack. He is a good at debate, more so than me at least.

Anyways, I'm doing shitty at school right now so I gotta hit the books like a mad man. (its insane how long I can spend just posting and reading stuff on Lanceandeskimo and this place)

I need to sign off the forums for awhile. So with that I will be back later this year. I enjoy chatting with everyone and hope to see you all soon. Take care and God bless.

Shucks, Jordan.. That's sure nice of you to say. But really, all I did was take the easier position (believe nothing, place burden of proof on the other guy). That and I've read the Bible front to back. So here's a warning for you kids: speed will get you through those days when you absolutely need to stay awake, but once you get hooked on it, you'll find that 23-hour days are pretty long when you've got no deadlines to meet. =)

Anyway, sorry to hear you'll be gone for a while. I was just getting into it.

Excuse me while I pout.

:angry:

[civilian_number_two]

I can't read all this stuff, just bits of it. It astounds me that all this effort and thought, not to mention typing time could go into all this crap.

Christianity, ... Inquisition ... Crusades, ... burning 'witches', etc etc.

...

Sorry; I nodded off there.

Normally I don't feed trolls, but with Jordan taking a break, I guess I'll have some time. =)

Anniemate, your argument is as old as your examples. And it's completely useless. Christianity brought us the Crusades! That's your argument for why people shouldn't ever discuss the topic, in a text-only, purely cerebral context? Wow; I could use that same sentence to argue that EVERYBODY, EVERYWHERE, should talk about Christianity at least once!

I'm happy to hear from you, on any topic, so long as the topic isn't one of dull ignorance and religious panic. You see that people are discussing religion, and you jump in and assume the dialogue is based on anger and hate. Those are your issues, and if you feel that they need to be avoided, then go to another topic and post there. The "Everyone else should shut up and listen to me" argument, is, frankly, pretty fucking high school. Grow up or get lost.

Of course, if your ridiculously paternalistic argument is truly grounded in a concern that we are wasting time discussing a worthless topic, then you should avoid seeing how much we bitch about STAR WARS. You'd cry like that Native American in the conservation commerical.

[Supes]

Also, I'm beginning to believe that Anniemate was a Clairvoyant. This discussion has jumped up a notch. 

No way. Anniemate was either a jittery religiophope or a no-good, stinking troll. There's no venom here, and were I to run into Jordan in the Bible studies section of the the UBC library, I'm sure he'd offer to buy me a coffee.

Hmmm! Sorry about that guys. One of the issues with print media communication is that something that sounds sarcastic in your head does not actually read that way to others. Perhaps I should have put an {Insert sarcasm here} statement before and an {End sarcasm here} after my sentence.

I still stand by my original statement, this is one of the only places I will have these sort of discussions because they stay on the intellectual grounds and don't degenerate into name calling etc. Of all the forums I've been involved with at different times this is one of the only places I've thought it would be really great to meet this person or that person because I think they would be extemely interesting to sit down with over coffee and chat. It just so happens that two of those people are in this discussion in Jordan & Mike plus it's an area of interest to me. Bonus all around as far as I'm concerned.

Back to the points at hand however, as I stated in an earlier post, as an historical text detailing events the Bible doesn't really rate there are far to many inconsistencies and also very little coroboration from other external sources. As a religious work it has some strong messages - and Anniemate you may want to take note of this - one of the messages is, "BE KIND TO ONE ANOTHER".

The basic issue at hand though is do you accept what the Bible is saying about Jesus Christ being sacrificed for the sins of the world and thus allowing us all access to Heavan. You can take it on face value if you like or you can start to look at evidence. Is it possible that this was all made up by a select few people? To be perfectly honest I am still in the process of examining this and thus find this topic area highly illuminating because it has brought up things that I have not been aware of and view points I have had little chance to discuss.

So in short, get yourself back here soon Jordan so this can be picked up where it left off.

[civilian_number_two]

Well, annie, I guess we agree on that much. I don't believe much of it either. There are some parts that are probably fairly accurate historical descriptions (The Global Flood, the Tower of Babel, The Day the Sun Stood Still, Adam and Eve), but then there are parts that make no sense to me at all (Abraham's Journeys, the visit of the Queen of Sheba).

So I too will burn in the mythological hell, along with George Lucas. I'd have it no other way.

And Supes, thanks for the compliment. I am glad to know that someone out there is reading my posts, and undertsanding that I'm not just being a bastard. Sorry if misunderstood your sarcsm; I thought that maybe you were reading angry vibe, which I promise you, Jordan, just isn't there.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 22 February 2004 - 04:55 AM

[Supes]

I suppose the trouble is I simply can't and never could believe in it, I tried, I really did, it seemed important to people. But it soon became on the same level as Santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny.

Thanks Annimate Apologies also for your sore head also, but these discussions are not necessarily about trying to convince people one way or the other - as both civilian and Jordan have stated. Neither of them believe really that they are going to change the others mind.

I have a great deal of respect for anyone who has made the descision you have stated because it means you actually took the time to think about it and that's always better than just making a choice based on what someone else thinks. I am a great believer in people really thinking for themselves & I don't mean this to be condescending in any way, it's just that there is less and less of it in out "free world"

As for my part in this little play, well I'm still asking the questions - that's why I am very much into the discussion going on between Jordan and Civilian. If we did not have a place to have these sort of open chats then it would be harder to come to the conclusions that may then direct the course of our lives. You said that you tried because it seemed important to other people, but in the end you made your own choice. This sort of positive discussion also helps others like myself to make those choices. Mine may not be the same as yours or Civilians or Jordans, for that matter. But it will be made through an examination of all sides.

It's like that old arguement, if you don't like what's on TV then turn it off. If it is so difficult to read these posts then it's probably best that you don't, however, please also let me say that what is drivel to one peson may be enlightenment for another. Personally, I'd like to know more about how you made your choices if you're interested in telling, rather than having you just write off a discussion because you have already past that stage.

We are all in this together and it's how we choose to help or hinder each other that will affect how we get out of it. Not sure if you read this thread Look to the Sky, but you just got a sneak peek at part of the philosophical ascertions I have been making since my time in the wilderness - apologies to those of you that have not idea what I'm talking about. It was a discussion on another threat that has sort of crossed over.

[Supes]

And Supes, thanks for the compliment. I am glad to know that someone out there is reading my posts, and undertsanding that I'm not just being a bastard. Sorry if misunderstood your sarcsm; I thought that maybe you were reading angry vibe, which I promise you, Jordan, just isn't there.

No worries And thanks once again, I have been getting a great deal out of this.

[Gleffnork]

Ok, ok, ok! THis is one fascinating forum! I simply am not able to refrain form reading every detail, and I have several things to say toeveryone, but unfortunately I am not able to remember it all right now so here is the first on a series of posts correcting you all and making everything clear to everyone!!

Civilain_number_one, you are, indeed, correct when you say that Jesus never ingested any non-kosher foods; he was bound by the old Jewish laws and could not break them, he never violated a single law set by Moses. He did, however, set up the completion of the law and stated that we as Christians could eat any of the previously tabooed foods.

George the_T: Cryogenically frozen people are not still alive. They are dead people that were either dead form age or some sickness who hope that they might be reanimated when a cure is discovered for their old age or sickness. This mthod doies not work. Man can not re-animate man, short of being Jesus.

Chefelf- I used to have many Jo-ho's who would come to my house, and like you I would not take on their beliefs, so I told them that if they wanted to share some iformation with me about their religion, then I would like to also share some info about my reigion with them. They responded by never visiting me again.
:angry:
By Christian standards, Jehovah's witnesses are, in fact, members of a cult and not a branch of Christianity.

Well, I shall now go over the entire forum again and refresh my memory of all of the interesting topics that I wish to address.

Until next, ------

Farewell wherever you fare, 'til your eiries receive you at the journey's end.

Gleffnork

--Viva the Alliance!!!

[civilian_number_two]

Civilain_number_one, you are, indeed, correct when you say that Jesus never ingested any non-kosher foods; he was bound by the old Jewish laws and could not break them, he never violated a single law set by Moses. He did, however, set up the completion of the law and stated that we as Christians could eat any of the previously tabooed foods.

I cannot vouch for anything my poor dead brother civilian_number_one may have said, but I certainly did come up with all that stuff abut Jesus and kosher foods. The passage in question was about whether it was ok to eat some food without having ritually washed your hands first, according to kosher laws. And how Jesus, who was apparently a slob sometimes like the best of us, and who just wanted to enjoy a meal in peace, went all ape-shit over this guy about how you couldn't make yourself spiritually unclean by failing to wash your hands just this one god-damned time. People after him, like Paul the murderer-cum-zealot, turned this statement into a rejection of the Jewish dietary laws and eventually into a rejection of the Jewish lifestyle, pact with Abraham be damned.

I don't follow the argument. I still say it should be obvious to anyone that the gospels were written by people who had never met Jesus, that they are the transcription of oral tradition, that they were selected from other similar texts by a council of priests some four centuries after the fact, and that they could actually be pretty damn inaccurate unless you buy the "Divinely Inspired" argument, which I personally don't. Too many inconsistencies, you see.

PS: I eat whatever I want, just like the man allegedly said, even if he didn't say it at all. Sometimes I wash my hands, but never ritually.