[civilian_number_two]

I don't have a car so I cannot travel too far to go to church.

Fair enough.

Don't judge christianity by the bad apples. Challenge the bible yourself then make a decision. Search for answers and don't blindly except anything.

Done.

[Heccubus]

Are you all religious nuts?

Yes, I am an intense right-wing fundamentalist Christian (I mean, with a name like 'Heccubus', I'd have to be, right?). I SMITE THEE, NON-BELIEVER!

[Jordan]

The term fundamentalist makes me laugh. If one does not stick to the fundamentals of doctrine, then he/she is hardly a follower of it. People attach such negative conotations to the word. I follow the fundamentals of christianity, or at least try too. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: Gutner's style is fun

[Jordan]

"Love thy neighbour as thyself"

It's an important one, I agree. But you cannot take that single verse out of the bible and follow it soley with out following the rest.

The bible states that the #1 most important thing to do is.----To love thy Lord God with all your heart, might, etc..."

And loving your neigbour is not the central theme of the bible. The central theme is:
God makes Man
Man falls from God
God makes Jesus
Man has chance to be with God again

That is the bible in a nut shell.

[civilian_number_two]

And loving your neigbour is not the central theme of the bible. The central theme is:
God makes Man
Man falls from God
God makes Jesus
Man has chance to be with God again

That is the bible in a nut shell.

No it isn't. The Bible, in a nutshell, is the history and the teachings of the Hebrew people. The thing you describe, the story of Jesus and the message derived, is entirely Paul's letters. Paul's letters are essentially a footnote to the Bible story, which for my money ends when Jesus comes back from the dead. Paul comes along after him and tells women to be quiet in church, tells the faithful to shun homosexuals, and to cast out the immoral. "With such people do not even eat," he tells the Romans. Also somewhere in Acts, Paul's friend and personal biographer Luke says that God told Peter it's okay to drop the dietary laws laid out by Moses in favour of a Roman diet. God told Peter that, apparently, in secret.

Anyway, you're right if you mean that that is the message of Christianity in a nutshell. It really is. I just think there's alot more going on in the Bible, and I think it's really unfortunate that many people's Bibles don't even have an "Old Testament," except for the Psalms. The publishers just decided it would be easier for everyone if they just cut out all those unnecessary pages. What the fuck?

[Heccubus]

Do you know how terrifying you all sound?

You can almost smell the fire and brimstone, and hear the gnashing of teeth.

Can't you all just be nice to one another? That was, I thought the object of the Christmas story etc, from what I was taught in primary school anyway.

All you 'splinter groups' with your petty differences only weaken the basic idea.

To "Love thy neighbour as thyself"

Simple really.

We are nice to one another, there is such a thing as kidding around, you know.

[Supes]

We are nice to one another, there is such a thing as kidding around, you know.

I'm not quite sure that Anniemate is all that serious themselves. I mean this is hardly a major slanging match. I've certainly seen a hell of a lot worse on forums. I don't think they are really reading the posts.

This has to be one of the most civilized religious discussions I have ever seen take place on a forum. I normally would not bother to take part in one.

Little PS for you Anniemate. I'm from Australia so you can be assured that this sort of good open discussion does also take place in Australia. But as you are not coming back apparently, it is unfortunate that you are going to miss the rest of this great forum.

If you really do think this discussion is terrifying then I would suggest you stay away from some of the more popular religous forums. They can be hell on earth.

[Jordan]

No it isn't. The Bible, in a nutshell, is the history and the teachings of the Hebrew people. The thing you describe, the story of Jesus and the message derived, is entirely Paul's letters

"it's okay to drop the dietary laws laid out by Moses in favour of a Roman diet. God told Peter that, apparently, in secret"

Christ did tell him. Whatever a man puts in his mouth does not make him unclean, its what comes out of his mouth that makes him unclean. MARK 7:14


The bible in a nutshell starts at genesis and ends at revelations.

Old testament New testament
Longing (Job 23:3)--------------Realization (Jn 1:45)
Creator (Ge 1:1) --------------Redeemer (Gal 3:13)
Majestic God (Ex 19:18)--------Our Father (Mt 6:9)
First things (Ge 1:1)-------------Last things (2Pe 3:10)
Spiritual Darkness (Ps 82:5)----Light of World (Jn 8:12)
Satan's Victory (Ge 3:6)--------Satan's Defeat (Rev 20:10)
Sin's Curse (Ge 3:17-19)-------Sin's Remedy (Jn 5:24)
Law (Ex 20:1-17) --------------- Gospel (Ro: 1:16)
Written Code (Ro 7:6)---------------The Spirit (Gal 5:5)
Prophecy (Isa 11:1-2)---------------Fulfilment (Ac 3:18-19)
Expected Messiah (Mal 3:1)---------Our Savior (Lk 2:11)
Paradise Lost (Ge 3:23)-------------Paradise Regained (Rev 22:14)

The "--------------' is christ. Christian view him as the bridge between old and new testament. He is the fulcrum, and the testaments are sides of the lever.

So for a christian it is Important to realize that

God created Man
And that Man Fell from God
God sends Jesus
Man has a chance to be saved now, and be with God.

Therefore I think that is a pretty darn good nutshell version of the bible

Old Testament is great too, it validates the Bibles historical accuracy. I read Pslams, Proverbs mostly. Some of the books in old testament are very hard to read ie. the building of the tabernacle.....BORING

[civilian_number_two]

Christ did tell him. Whatever a man puts in his mouth does not make him unclean, its what comes out of his mouth that makes him unclean. MARK 7:14

Yeah. He's actually referring to the practice of ceremonially washing one's hands before eating. It's a big step the writer takes when he declares that Jesus means that all food are now acceptable. Find an example where Jesus refused to keep kosher because he figured the dietary laws were crap.

Anyway, this is the thing: why would they have these laws about clean and unclean foods, and why would Jesus change them? I put it to you that the Gospels, written as they were so long after Jesus's death, were full of things that did not happen and sayings that Jesus did not make. They are propoganda, and in many cases they distort in favour of selling this new sect to non-Jewish people, who would have shied from circumcision and who would not have understood the dietary restrictions.

I say the very fact that there are so many discrepancies in the gospel stories, along with the weak and often bogus nature of the "Prophecies" that Jesus allegedly fulfilled in his lifetime, are a strong enough argument on their own to make my case.

Those side-by-side quotes sound a bit bible-studyish to me. I looked at a few of them, and gosh if a lot aren't taken out of context when asked to fulfill the equations you're trying to draw! Not that I disagree with any of the conclusions; that's definitely Christianity in a nutshell. Personal responsibility for the sin of Adam, fulfilled somehow in Christ, requirement to spread the gospel. I just find the argument spurious. If I'm to accept the various books of the Bible as "one work," with a single message, and I am to accept that the message is a Christian one, then I am at a loss when faced with most of it. Most of the Bible really doesn't go in the direction of the Christian message at all. Most of it, I still say, is the history of a warlike and frequently nomadic people. And this business of the Serpent in Genesis being the Satan of Revelation ... I'm as likely to believe that as I am to buy that Lucas had nine movies all planned before he shot STAR WARS, or that JK Rowling knew where all seven novels were going before she wrote the first HARRY POTTER.

Sell crazy someplace else; we're all full up here.

[Jordan]

Quoteable from Jesus

Are you so dull? he asked "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body"

Mark 7:18


by saying this, Jesus declared all foods 'clean' since food comes from outside of the body. And by clean he does not mean physical, but spiritually.

why would they have these laws about clean and unclean foods, and why would Jesus change them

Many reasons. For one to seperate and distinguish Hebrews from the rest of the world. Alot of the laws make sense as far as health issues are concerned.

Also the Gospels were written 30 years after his death. That is not long enough for myth to form. 1000's wittnessed him, 30 years would not make them forget.

What do you think the christian message is? You find that half of it is just a historical track record? What would you rather have? Out of no where Christ appears! No prophecies means no validification.

[Despondent]

(walks into room at a party) "what's everybody talking about?"

I saw this on a daily email devotional a friend set me up with. the bible in 50 words or some such.
(they do a weekly bible study that's based on the original languages and it's really ear opening. Genesis was great! I'd reccomend it to anybody curious, it's all archived. and if you're not interested, that's cool too. )

God made
Adam bit
Noah arked
Abraham split
Joseph ruled
Jacob fooled

Bush talked
Moses balked
Pharaoh plagued
People walked
Sea divided
Tablets guided
Promise landed
Saul freaked
David peeked
Prophets warned
Jesus born

God walked
Love talked
Anger crucified
Hope died
Love rose
Spirit flamed
Word spread
God remained.

[ Prayer Requests---Contact Us---Bible Study ]
[ Audio Devotions ]
at: http://www.godsminute.org
Apostle Paul Ministries, P O Box 55996, Hayward, CA 94545

[Jordan]

hahaha that was awsome, far more Nutshellish than mine.