[Slade]

This sounds like it's boiling down to "How many negative things must a person do to outweigh what good they do?" which is a sliding scale based on perception and philosophy, and has therefore forced me to say "Discuss!"

[MacGyver's Mullet]

Cuba: Well, I have a certain respect for Mr Castro - but I think you are deluding yourself in idolising him. He is certainly a legendary figure, no doubt about that - and his continued and thus far successful opposition to US Imperialsim is indeed heroic. But, he's definatley not an angel, and not someone I would point to and say 'Yeah that's how a country should be run'.

There are great things about Cuba - the health service, education and sport. There are also the bad - no free press, imprisioning of dissidents (and I don't mean CIA backed counter-revolutionaries here), a certain cult-of-personalityism, the existence of a bureaucratic elite at the top of society - and although it is no longer done, homosexuals used to be imprisoned simply for being gay.

And I speak as someone who considers himself an revolutionary - that doesn't mean I'm sitting here in a beret with a petrol bomb in one hand and an AK on my knee, it means that I think capitalism is an utterly corrupt and unjust system that must be overthrown and replaced with democratic socialism.

My criticism of Castroism comes from the left - and I basically have no time for criticism from the right. For them to talk about human rights abuses in Cuba is laughable - in the grand scale of things, whatever abuses Castro has been resposnible for since '59 barely register when put up alongside, say, the bombing of Cambodia, the overthrowing of Allende in '73, the Vietnam war, the actions of British Imperialism in Kenya, Aden, Malaya and Ireland, the French in Algeria - or any other Imperialist crimes you care to mention - hell even the constant terrorist attacks on Cuba and Cubans.

Everyone remembers when the Black September group murdered Israeli athletes in '72. It's often cited as some kind of defence for Israeli abuses - but how often is the bombing of the Cubana Airliner by CIA-backed terrorists under Orlando Bosch (recently pardoned by George 'War on Terra' Bush) mentioned? This bombing killed 57 Cubans and 16 others, including the entire junior Cuban Fencing Team. This is of course an 'acceptable' terrorist act - while locking up 70 or so CIA-backed 'dissidents' is a huge crime against humanity. See Cuba has these pesky sedition laws, that say that if you organise to overthrow the regime, you go to prison. Strangley enough, the US has them too! Shocking I know.

Anyway, Cuba's not perfect and from my perspective far from being the future for humanity that I envision. (There are a myriad reasons for this mind you, both objective and subjective - indeed going back even to manner in which the revolution was carried out - it doesn't simply boil down to Castro being 'a bad person' - that's just historical simplism, and I hate that! ) But there is no doubt that even today Castro, Che and the Revolution are looked upon as inspiration among the poor and working class of Latin America (not to say everyone wants to totally emulate the Cuban experience - like when an artist inspires you, you don't just go and redo their work do you?).

China - China won't go to war. Well I can't see it happening. Now I'm not an expert on China-Taiwan relations - but the recent furore seems to be a bout of Imperial grandstanding between the US/China/EU. You must also remember that its not simply the case that all of Taiwan wants to break from China - in fact the pro-indenpendence and pro-Beijing factions in government are pretty much split right down the middle. I do know that with Iraq and Afganistan, and developments in Latin America - the US cannot really afford to send troops to Taiwan if there is a possibility of real war. In fact, if they did get embroiled in such a thing, it may well lead to Imperial overstretch. There is the NATO option but given that the EU is attempting to distance itself from Washington over the Iraq fiasco, I can't see them getting involved in such a venture. I mean its not like its going to war with a country like Serbia or Afghanistan with minimal military capability - this would be going to war with an emerging Imperial power with a huge military machine.

On the issue of the anti-Japanese protests - well its not really fair to say that these are the first demonstrations to take place in recent history. There have been over the last few years and months numerous trade union and pro-environment demos, and rising agner with the regime. I think its fair to say that the regime is using these anti-Japan protests as a vent for much of this anger. As one Beijing student, quoted in the New York Times, says: "[the Beijing police] herded protesters into tight groups, let them take turns throwing rocks, then told them they had ’vented their anger’ long enough and bussed them back to campus." This does have the potential tobackfire though - Japan is China's biggest trading partner - and not only that, but these protests have the potential to link in with the anger among sections of Chinese sociey over issues like worker rights, the environment, pensions, student rights etc. That this is recognised by the regime can be seen from the fact that CCP leaders are now saying basically - I quote one offical on State TV: "Calmly, rationally, and legally express your own views. Do not attend marches that have not been approved. Do not do anything that might upset social stability." Anyway, a good website for a leftwing view of China, and one that I should check a lot more often is China Worker.

Venezulea and the question of the Imperialist crisis generally I will come back to later. (Funny almsot always when I say that I never do! But I promise I'll try!)

[Laughlyn]

The anti Japan protests weren't restricted to China, other countries in the region like Korea got involved. If anything I'd say that the protests scored the big C a few points with their neighbours.

Chavez and Castro's recent trade tie up looks to cause more trouble for Washington, the expansion to other countries in the region, particularly those who suffer from US trade restrictions will only serve to weaken the US position.

[Slade]

And I speak as someone who considers himself an revolutionary - that doesn't mean I'm sitting here in a beret with a petrol bomb in one hand and an AK on my knee, it means that I think capitalism is an utterly corrupt and unjust system that must be overthrown and replaced with democratic socialism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think so too. And I apologize for not having anything intelligent to contribute to the debate at the moment.

[J m HofMarN]

MacMullet- I agree, Castro does indeed do some things that are not terribly good. However, if he allowed more freedoms of the press the US would be all over it in seconds. And their propaganda machine might have a very real chance of turning the people against him, or at least making them apathetic towards an Amerikan invasion. That's not the larger problem.

The larger problem is that I would bet my beret that after the invasion Castro would look like an angel compared to the new rulers. Torture, already used by the US on the island, would be common place, a one party "democracy" would be installed, and rather than serving one of their own brethren such as Castro the Cuban people would be enslaved by United Fruit and US corporations. To protect people from that detestable fate Castro has no choice but to error on the side of caution and I honestly can't blame him.

I do however see what you mean and I definately don't support human rights abuses, but what Castro's doing is actually even more mild than what the US did in the sixties and its clear that the majority of his people and indeed the world (the vote to end the blockade in the UN recently was almost unanimous except for the US and their attack dog Israel) it is clear that most Cubans realize why these policies are in place.

Castro is not disappearing people as the US does, and they are not tortured or murdered. They're imprisoned and given trials and visitation rights. If someone is found to be innocent, as I'm sure happens, they can go home without any hard feelings. That's not an irreversible kind of thing. The stuff the US does- torture, murder, rape, deportation for the purposes of the aforementioned, disappearing people- those are things that can never be apologized for or undone, and that's what Castro protects each and every Cuban citizen from.*

*Except the five heros of the revolution currently imprisoned in the US for trying to stop terrorism.