[Otal Nimrodi]

Well, that simply LOOKING like something doesn't give you the right to be it. Or maybe you did address the point, and I just didn't realise it.

[Sailor Abbey]

Well, that simply LOOKING like something doesn't give you the right to be it. Or maybe you did address the point, and I just didn't realise it.

Ok, I'm lost. Looking like god doesnt give us the right to act like god?

Who says we really look like god. I think we just ended up being the species that nature selected to give opposable thumbs. That having been said... i believe nature IS divine.

[Otal Nimrodi]

Well, as I said, COBNAT said that God made us in his own image.

[Gobbler]

Heh, yeah, so does the bible. I remember seeing an interview on TV last month, in which someone said that Darwin's theories just can't be right, because he doesn't believe that God looks like an ape. Well, don't want to sound rude, but that interviewee wasn't the epitome of beautifulness either...

Edit: Oh fuck that, I guess I do wanna sound rude after all.

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 31 January 2006 - 12:51 AM

[Cobnat]

Well, as I said, COBNAT said that God made us in his own image.

Image can also mean something/someone reflecting something/someone... i.e. Personality, Inteligence, Wisdom... etc.

[Jordan]

I think it means 'spirit'. Not physical image.

[Sailor Abbey]

I think the old testament were a bunch of stories created to try to educated the common people of that time. I don't think they were ever meant to be taken literaly.

While I don't have a bible handy, I would like to point out that somewhere near the first few pages of genesis, god refers to itsef as "we."

God basically comes out and dismisses the idea of monotheism right there.

If were going to start taking stuff in the bible literally, then we cant pick and choose which stuff, just so we can tailor it to our arguements.

[Spoon Poetic]

"We" = the Holy Trinity... Christianity is weird in that it's monotheistic because the Holy Trinity is one, but at the same time, sort of polytheistic because the Holy Trinity is three... Kind of like a band has a guitar player, a drummer, and a bass player - three different people - but they all make up just one band. That's the best way I can explain it... It's odd, yes.

[Sailor Abbey]

"We" = the Holy Trinity... Christianity is weird in that it's monotheistic because the Holy Trinity is one, but at the same time, sort of polytheistic because the Holy Trinity is three... Kind of like a band has a guitar player, a drummer, and a bass player - three different people - but they all make up just one band. That's the best way I can explain it... It's odd, yes.

No where else in the old testament (as far as i can remember) is the holy trinity ever mentioned. The concept of such wasnt devised until long after Jesus's death. If I'm not mistaken, it is an invention of the early Catholic Church. People refer to the holy spirit and 'god the father' but never with christ i.e. no holy trinity. All three persons are mentioned in the new testiment, but never as the holy trinity. I'm not 100%sure, but i'm pretty sure.

[Gobbler]

"We" = not the Holy Trinity in this case.

...somewhere near the first few pages of genesis, god refers to itsef as "we."

The old testament is not referring to a trinity consisting of God father, God son & God spirit, since the son first joined the club in the new testament. I guess God just felt a little bit cocky at that time.

Anyways, I think the bible's not going to help win any arguments in any case. I mean, just look at it. The 10 Commandments are declared twice in it, if I remember it right. Each time by Mose. The same person who wrote... umm... let's see... somewhere in Mose's fourth book... Numbers, chapter 35, verses 16 and following:

If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death.

And so on, it basically says that if you dare to fuck up anything, then you're fucked yourself. Big time. And it's an explicit command to kill someone. Flip a few pages and read "Thou shalt not kill". Turn back a few pages and read again. Infinite loops made easy.

I guess that's what's just bound to happen if humans dare to claim to have an understanding of God's will and are stupid enough to jot that crap down.

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 31 January 2006 - 01:03 PM

[Sailor Abbey]

Anyways, I think the bible's not going to help win any arguments in any case. I mean, just look at it. The 10 Commandments are declared twice in it, if I remember it right. Each time by Mose. The same person who wrote... umm... let's see... somewhere in Mose's fourth book...

didnt moses write genesis?

[Cobnat]

didnt moses write genesis?

I think the bible was writen AFTER Moses.

[Sailor Abbey]

I think the bible was writen AFTER Moses.

well... technically, the bible wasnt the bible until quite sometime after the time of Christ. Various prophets (including moses) and the like, would write down stories/prophecies/whatever, and call it the word of god... then much later on... some people (don't know what thier editorial qualifications were) decided to pick and choose among the stories and called what they found acceptable "the Old testement."

The new testiment was a collection of scriptures that one of the early popes decided to keep around and call the new testament. Everything that didnt fit the theme or that pope whoever didnt find acceptable to rule and govern the new church, got scrapped. And burned. A lot of scriptures were 'lost' or hidden most likely, and we are still finding them today. The Church doesnt want to recognize that stuff for some reason... probably because it would fuck up a 2000yr old foundation of bullshit thier organization was built on.

[Gobbler]

didnt moses write genesis?

Yes and no. The first five books, also called the Pentateuch, are said to be "Moses'" books. That would be Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Each is very important for Christianity and especially Judaism, in fact, the Pentateuch is the Torah.

I think the bible was writen AFTER Moses.

That's where the 'no' part (see above) comes into play. The bible was written after Moses, as was the Torah, which had been assembled at the time around 800 and 200 BC - and those assembled writings were already old at that time. I think Moses lived in circa 13th century BC. You get the picture.

The Church doesnt want to recognize that stuff for some reason... probably because it would fuck up a 2000yr old foundation of bullshit thier organization was built on.

Couldn't agree more.

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 31 January 2006 - 02:34 PM

[Sailor Abbey]

...which brings me to another point...

the scriptures in the new testament... they all quote Jesus as saying this or that, saying various events happend and so on...

these scriptures were written anywhere from 50 to 120 years AFTER Christs death. I can't remember what my mom said to me last week... how the fuck are you going to tell me these people remember Jesus 'exact' word. Thats regoddamndiculous.

Oh but 'Jesus say this' and 'Jesus said that'

... no he didnt. John, Matt and Paul said that. We've all played that stupid telephone game where shit gets all twisted around. Come on now - nature gave us brains for a reason. Lets try to use them....

...which brings me to another point...

the scriptures in the new testament... they all quote Jesus as saying this or that, saying various events happend and so on...

these scriptures were written anywhere from 50 to 120 years AFTER Christs death. I can't remember what my mom said to me last week... how the fuck are you going to tell me these people remember Jesus 'exact' word. Thats regoddamndiculous.

Oh but 'Jesus say this' and 'Jesus said that'

... no he didnt. John, Matt and Paul said that. We've all played that stupid telephone game where shit gets all twisted around. Come on now - nature gave us brains for a reason. Lets try to use them....

I mean.. i guess if you honestly believe that stuff - thats all fine and good - but when people start telling you your evil or your going to hell becuase you chose to think it through, thats pretty screwed up.