SW books..questions..help needed
#1
Posted 16 August 2007 - 06:23 AM
I am sad that episodes VII, VIII, & IX will probably never see the light of day on the silver screen, and with that being said, I am wanting to read the books that are essentially what episodes VII, VIII, & IX would be.
I know that there are many, many books out there in the EU, and Im really not crazy about reading this, that, and the other..side tales, etc...just the core books that would essentially take me from where ROTJ left off, right to the ending of episode IX.
Now, to be clear, I am interested also in reading books that bridge gaps between episodes as well,.such as Shadows of the Empire. I also have an interest in reading Splinter of the Minds Eye as well.
i know that shadows of the empire is the story that comes between esb and rotj, and after rotj is the book truce at bakura, and heir to the empire is after that, and what would episode IX be?
also, isnt splinter of the minds eye, sort of like a prequel to a new hope,..so basically, if im understanding it all correctly it goes like this
I: TPM (film)
II: AOTC (film)
III: ROTS (film)
splinter of the minds eye (book)
IV:ANH (film)
V:ESB (film)
shadows of the empire (book)
VI:ROTJ (film)
VII: Truce at bakura (book)
VIII: Heir to the empire (book)
IX: (forgot the name of this book)
I buying some SW books off of amazon, and am just wanting to read only those books that would complete episodes VII, VIII, & IX. I dont care about any other expanded universe other than that,.except for those books that bridge the gap between episodes,.like shadows of the empire does.
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)
QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
#2
Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:13 PM
Also, "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" is really, really bad. It was basically written as a sequel for 'Star Wars' that could be made into a low budget film in the event that 'Star Wars' succeeded in being made a film. However, when "Star Wars" DID become a film, it was such a huge success that any thought to doing "Splinters of the Mind's Eye" next was forgotten. And it's a good thing too - especially since it contains a scene where Leia picks up Luke's lightsabre and cuts off Vader's arm. I mean... honestly!
If what you want is an equivalent for EPISODES VII, VIII and IX, then there is no question about it. You want the 'Thrawn Trilogy' by Timothy Zahn:
- Heir to the Empire
- Dark Force Rising
- The Last Command
In fact, if you're going to read any 'Star Wars' novels, just read novels written by Timothy Zahn. He is a gifted story teller, his writing style is mature and the stories are always intelligent, sophisticated and compelling. As well as this, he introduces very interesting new characters who are as every bit as memorable as the characters from the films. Most notably, there is Grand Admiral Thrawn, the new leader of the Empire, an intelligent and cunning warlord who instantly struck a chord with readers. There is also the wonderful Mara Jade, a woman who once worked as a personal servant of the Emperor, carrying out his whims. Now she works for a smuggling organisation. She is gifted in the force and you know that means she is going to cross paths with Luke. After these novels, she continued to be a prominent character in future 'Star Wars' stories.
These books really feel like a genuine continuation from the movies and they are the best thing to happen in the 'Star Wars' universe since 'The Empire Strikes Back'.
Now, these books are a self-contained trilogy so once you've read them, you could stop there. But Timothy Zahn has written a few other 'Star Wars' novels as well that you may enjoy too.
"The Hand of Thrawn" duology:
- Specter of the Past
- Vision of the Future
This story takes place five years after the "Thrawn" trilogy and about ten years after 'Return of the Jedi'. Unfortunately, these stories are compromised by the fact that numerous incompetent writers have trampled the 'Star Wars' universe to death, messing about with both the original characters and also the new characters too. The worst of these writers is a villain called Kevin J. Anderson who writes the kind of things that we probably wrote ourselves... when we were seven. He is responsible for two new incarnations of the Death Star and a weapon even more powerful (gosh, the sophistication of his ideas was overwhelming!). He also tied Luke down to a Jedi ACADEMY of all things on Yavin (that place where the rebels were hiding in 'Star Wars').
Anyway, so Timothy Zahn came into this vile mess, facing a universe that has been majorly screwed up and characters who have just had the past five years of their lives wasted. But did he complain? No. He got straight into cleaning the place up. So a bit of these novels is dedicated to damage control. He also ties up some loose ends to prevent further screwing around by bad authors.
As for the story itself, it is quite different from the 'Thrawn' trilogy. It's a mystery in which our heroes try to get to the bottom of a conspiracy hatched by dissidents in the Empire which threatens the stability of the New Republic (the government the rebels established). The reader is let in on what's going on from the beginning but the suspense comes from wondering if the heroes can put an end to it in time.
- Survivor's Quest
This is set a few years later. In this story, Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade go on mission to retrieve the wreck of a Jedi flight project. The ships were destroyed by Grand Admiral Thrawn a long time ago and his people want to make amends with the New Republic. At first, it just seems like a simple diplomatic mission but then Luke and Mara discover that things are not all they seem - and soon they are fighting for their survival.
This one isn't your typical 'Star Wars' type story either but it's a very compelling read, with some nice twists.
- Outbound Flight
This is a fairly recent novel, set before the Clone Wars and it tells the story of what really happened to that Jedi flight project from the previous book. This one doesn't feature any of the characters from the movies (except for some unwelcome cameos by Anakin and Obi Wan, which I'd recommend skipping) but it shows us Thrawn when he was much younger, before he joined the Empire and became a Grand Admiral. It's probably not everyone's cup of tea because it's not typical 'Star Wars' either but if you're a fan of Thrawn, you'll really enjoy this.
- Allegiance
This is a must-read. It's Timothy Zahn's latest book and it's his best effort since the 'Thrawn' trilogy. This is set between "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" and it features three storylines that work their way together. In one storyline, we have Luke, Leia and Han and we get to see how they progressed from the way they were at the end of "Star Wars" to the start of "The Empire Strikes Back". This isn't the most prominent of the storylines though but I don't think you'll be disappointed because the other two storylines are very compelling. We have a young Mara Jade serving the Emperor and tracking down a traitor to the Empire... and somewhere else, we have five stormtroopers who have deserted the Empire and are now trying to make the galaxy a better place in their own way. There is a lot going on here but it all gets resolved by the end of the book and it is gripping. Honestly, I couldn't put this book down. It's just so good.
In a timeline, Timothy Zahn's novels would look like this:
- Outbound Flight
Star Wars
- Allegiance
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
- Heir To The Empire
- Dark Force Rising
- The Last Command
- Specter of the Past
- Vision of the Future
- Survivor's Quest
For you, and any reader just starting out, I'd say start with the "Thrawn" trilogy or "Allegiance". It may be fun to read "Allegiance" first so you can see Mara working with the Empire first.
But you should definitely read the "Thrawn" trilogy. They are EPISODES VII, VIII and IX and they're actually better than the movie trilogy in a way because they finish on a strong note (rather than whimpering out on 'Return of the Jedi'). Actually, 'Allegiance' is compulsory reading too. There. I've said it. You have to go out right now and read the 'Thrawn' trilogy and 'Allegiance'.
If George Lucas had made these movies into films, retitled the original movies Episodes I, II and III and called these ones Episodes IV, V and VI then I'm pretty sure the world would be a better place right now.
And for your future 'Star Wars' reading, remember the golden rule:
If Timothy Zahn didn't write it, don't read it.
#3
Posted 16 August 2007 - 11:14 PM
You have me interested in reading some EU books, something I've never done (apart from the deplorable Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the childish Han Solo trilogy from my childhood). I am just going to sit still until the interest wears off.
#4
Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:56 AM
they were actually the first SW Expanded books i read
i wish they had been made into films
and released on the big screen, they deserve it.
But give the other guys a break
Sean Williams did a good job in the Force Heretic trilogy
which is sort of recent by at least 2 years.
and it works into the Darkhorse Comic SW:LEGACY
I've tried to read the series in order and it is difficult
there is a heck of a lot of crap to cut through
but for the most part its worth it.
they tale end anyways. I haven't read the last 4
i think but i heard there crap and try to replay the Anakin years.
But Mireaux, you should at least
try again from the Heretic,
perhaps it will make you believe again
Duct tape is like the force....
There's a lightside, a darkside
and it holds everything together
There are too many people in the world...We need another plague -Dwight K. Shrute [The Office]
#5
Posted 17 August 2007 - 06:35 AM
i like how you gave a brief synopsis of some of the tales, and showed how certain key stories played into the overall timeline.
i was stunned when you shot down Shadows of the Empire though. I have never read the book, but it seemed like everywhere i went, people had nothing but good things to say about it, and spoke highly of Dash Randar,.and I figured since it also spawned a Nintendo 64 game, it had to have been a good read.
I guess I will just buy the Thrawn trilogy for now to whet my appetite.
I really wish George Lucas had some sort of online reference page that shows which novels he truly gives exclusive authorization to, and more importantly, recognizes as being fully canonical to the SW Universe.
From what I understand, every novel out there cant be canonical, because there would be certain clashes within storyline, characters and continuity,..am I correct?
This post has been edited by mireaux7: 17 August 2007 - 06:36 AM
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)
QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
#7
Posted 17 August 2007 - 08:26 AM
And sorry, Tru Jade. I heard this Force Heretic series is part of this New Jedi Order rubbish and I'm not too keen on the idea of a whole lot of young Jedi knights running around the place, having their force adventures. In the original movies and in Zahn's work, Jedi antics were not the main focus of the story. The force aspects were prominently featured of course - but they shared the screen and the page with ordinary people, simple friendship, space battles, ground skermishes and the rest of it.
When the force completely takes over, it's more like the prequels. One of the things that really irked me about those movies was that there were no everyman characters in it. We didn't have a young fighter pilot whose progress could be watched as the events progressed. We didn't have some a group of discontented soldiers as a point of reference for the ordinary man. No scoundrel freighter pilot with a heart of gold. Just a whole lot of sanctimonious Jedi being prats.
Also, the 'New Jedi Order' novels muck around with the characters from the movies too much. From what I've heard, they really get put through their paces. Leia gets brutally tortured. Chewbacca gets killed... and I just think these authors should give them a break. They're retired. And killing off Chewbacca seems more like a stunt by a mediocre author to attract publicity to his work than a genuine decision in the writing process.
However, I am sorry if the Force Heretic series is not involved in this rubbish.
The other problem for me is that when the 'Star Wars' novels started coming out in their initial rapid succession, I found myself gobbling up everything that had 'Star Wars' on the cover and after a while, I just came to the conclusion that while Timothy Zahn had made something brilliant, the other authors were just churning out cheap trash. It almost seemed to me as if the publishers weren't even reading subscriptions for 'Star Wars' novels - they were just grabbing them and handing them on to the printing division.
Here are some of the problems I was coming across in all this so-called literature:
- Bad characterisation. So many authors had characters called Han, Luke and Leia who never acted like those characters for a second.
- Stupid, stupid childish plots, especially the rubbish about superweapons. You can just imagine the little authors' brains ticking over. "I know! Our heroes have to save the galaxy from a giant laser!"
- Author's trampling on the work of others, particularly mucking around with other people's characters, changing their personalities, killing them off and generally being gits. Ask the other authors first, guys.
- Plots that are really dull and not related to "Star Wars" at all. I remember one novel being about some giant blob of energy that consumed people or something like that. And I am certain that the author who wrote it hadn't written it as a 'Star Wars' novel at all. I bet she realised how successful everything with the 'Star Wars' name on it was first, then took out her old manuscript and changed the names of her characters to Han, Leia and Luke and sent it in.
- General lack of technical writing skill, resulting in poor pacing and badly constructed sentences. Basically, if something is going to be sold in bookstores, this is not acceptable.
- Oh yeah. One author had the nerve to bring in characters from the 'Star Wars' holiday special. I could not believe it when I came across Chewbacca's son 'Lumpy' (Lumpy! Who the %^@# is Lumpy?!) in one of the novels.
After all this, how could I go on reading more? Basically, Timothy Zahn was the only author who hadn't let me down. He had created something epic and it is obvious from its depth, scope and rich characterisation, that he worked hard on it and wanted nothing less than to give 'Star Wars' fans something really extraordinary. All the other authors were doing was just cashing in Zahn's achievement writing rushed, poorly planned novels - either that or they weren't particularly great authors to begin with.
"Shadows of the Empire" was the most hyped book. It was actually commissioned by Lucas before the first note was made in its planning - and they assigned the author afterwards. It basically capitalised on the fact that it was set during the movie trilogy. But don't be fooled. Its wide base of support is comparable to that of the prequels.
I'll give you a sample of the writing for you to help you understand. Steve Perry, the author of this oh-so sorry excuse of a novel, introduces the character of Xixor, a huge galactic crimelord and he goes to great lengths to explain to us how rich he is. An emissary gives this guy some special jewel that is worth several star systems (don't ask me how the maths works on this - just take it as one sample of how childish this book is). Steve then goes on to write something like this -
"Xixor then threw the jewel casually onto his table. If it should have fallen on the floor, he wouldn't have bothered to pick it up. In fact, he wouldn't have cared if it accidentally was cleaned up and disposed of. This is because money is nothing to this guy."
I mean, that's just stupid. People don't get rich with that kind of attitude and even if this particular character was that dumb, it still isn't necessary to write such a silly paragraph.
That's what I'm talking about. Now, as for the overall story, I can't remember much but it may have been okay. However, it's very difficult to read a novel with that type of childish writing style.
Are you joking? You want the opinion of the guy who made the prequels? The guy who happily trod all over the original movies and contradicted everything in them?
Be your own judge of what's canonical. Don't listen to that guy. I mean, if we asked him, he'd probably tell us that the prequels were canon!
And yeah, there's lots of continuity errors between the novels - which is to be expected when a whole lot of amateurs try to cash in on "Star Wars" by writing rubbish.
That's the way to go. I hope you enjoy it.
EDIT - Someone posted while I was writing this. No, Thrawn doesn't rhyme with Zahn. Different vowel sounds.
This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 17 August 2007 - 08:27 AM
#8
Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:14 AM
Haven't read any of the above, other than the deplorable mention. But if I have spare time in the future, I now know what to seek out. Great posts, MG, and good to see you again. Great calling out on GL, a little something we can all enjoy.
Which one, again, has Lumpy in it?
#9
Posted 17 August 2007 - 02:12 PM
everytime they give off that wide-eyed stare, and point their trident at the camera and saying "GOOO-SHAAA", it makes me want to pick one of the little bastards up off the ground, break their wooden trident in half, and bend them over my knee and start spanking their furry little galactic asses.
#10
Posted 17 August 2007 - 07:44 PM
Hey Despondent, glad I could be of service. And if you want to know what the specific books with Lumpy in them are, they are referred to as 'The Black Fleet Crisis' trilogy. I think the first one is called "Before the Storm" if I remember correctly. The author also writes his name in a really pretentious way on the cover too - Michael P. Kube-McDowell.
I mean, why not just Michael McDowell or if he really has to, Michael Kube-McDowell?
Oh, and on the subject of George Lucas, I remembered a nice little quote from Timothy Zahn that I had intended to put in my post last night. In the 'Thrawn' trilogy, Zahn makes quite a number of references to events in the past, giving the reader an interesting look at the Old Republic - an interesting look that was, surprise surprise, trampled by the prequels.
Anyway, an interviewer asked him what he thought about this and Zahn, ever the diplomat, said something like this -
"It was nice playing on George Lucas' driveway even for a just a little while. And if Lucas felt the need to reverse his car over my toys, I suppose I can handle that."
I'm quoting by memory however, and probably quite poorly, but it went something like that anyway.
Actually if you're interested in finding out more about this man's unique take on 'Star Wars', there are some good interviews on the internet with him.
Timothy Zahn interview - February 2000
I quite liked this one. This after he had completed the 'Thrawn' trilogy and the 'Hand of Thrawn' duology. At that point, he wasn't planning on writing any further 'Star Wars' novels.
Timothy Zahn interview - Just before the release of Outbound Flight
Oh, and I just have to be fair and point out that as 'Outbound Flight' is set before the clone wars, it is also a compromised work. Zahn does his best to ease the pain though - and he even includes a nice scene in which Thrawn mops the floor with the Trade Federation. Still though, one can't help wondering what this book would have been like if the prequels hadn't come along and ruined everything.
Anyway, I'm sure that will whet your appetites sufficiently for now. I wish I could find that quote I was trying to remember though.
#11
Posted 24 August 2007 - 06:29 AM
I bought 3 at Half-Price Books for under $10.00
Heir to the Empire
Dark Force Rising
Shadows of the Empire
One for under $4.00 on amazon:
Spinter of the minds eyes
and a brand spanking new one for about $7.00 at waldenbooks:
The last command.
I am currently reading shadows of the empire, and for the most part i enjoy it. I do feel that its kinda drawn out in some scenes,..almost like the author was trying to find deliberate ways to drag the story out to almost 400 pages. many scenes could have been ommited, and the story would have pretty much remained unchanged. but then again, the same could be said with the film: The Phantom Menace.
I do however like the character Xizor, and have always been anxious to see what a really good fight would have looked like by another member of the dark side, who rivals vader in intellect and strength.
all in all, the book seems good..but if i think the book is good, and some peeps on here are putting it down...man..i cant wait to see whats in store for me once i begin reading the thrawn trilogy.
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)
QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
#12
Posted 28 August 2007 - 11:11 PM
Well, like I said with "Shadows of the Empire", my problem is with the childish writing style. The story may well be fine. Anyway, if you're enjoying it, that's good.
I'm not sure why you bothered getting Splinter of the Mind's Eye though. You may regret wasting your time on that.
However, you will definitely not regret purchasing Zahn's books (if you have any sense). I just re-read the Thrawn trilogy myself and I just can't praise it enough. Good, intelligent fun.
#13
Posted 29 August 2007 - 07:01 AM
Well, like I said with "Shadows of the Empire", my problem is with the childish writing style. The story may well be fine. Anyway, if you're enjoying it, that's good.
I'm not sure why you bothered getting Splinter of the Mind's Eye though. You may regret wasting your time on that.
However, you will definitely not regret purchasing Zahn's books (if you have any sense). I just re-read the Thrawn trilogy myself and I just can't praise it enough. Good, intelligent fun.
and as of this post, i have completely read Shadows of the Empire. I must say it was a good read, all in all. Steve Perry's writing style (hey,.wait a minute,.wasnt he the lead singer of Journey??) was smooth flowing, his choice of adjectives, etc gave me good mental visualizations of what he was trying to convey.
I did find some parts to be irrelevant,..like when Xizor talks about eating Moonglow.."its an exotic fruit, and only the best trained chefs can prepare it, because they must execute 97 meticulous steps,.one missed step constitutes death"....uhhm..ok..nice side story..but there is virtually no correlating plot that goes along with this...its all just filler content.
as far as why i bought Splinter of the Minds Eye,.basically it boils down to a sense of nostalgia and wanting to read something before Star Wars became the ultra huge fan-laden commercialized monarchy that it is today.
I am now reading Heir to the Empire,.Im somewhere in the third chapter. The first chapter completely threw me off,..i felt like it Zahn was trying to compound/compress way too much information in that first chapter...so much that..i just skimmed through it, and went onto to chapter 2 and began reading from there.
i thought it was kind of funny and weird that Lando never told Luke about one of his favorite drinks,..Hot Chocolate. Come on, Lando..why do ya got to hold out for so long to tell Luke about Hot Chocolate. And why must they call it "hot chocolate",.i prefer to say hot cocoa,.and IMHO,.Swiss Miss with Marshmallows reigns supreme!!
* and on a small side note,.why is it that the brother man is the one who had to introduce hot chocolate??...Im guessing in some EU novel, Mace introduced to an unsuspecting band of fellow Jedis some fried chicken at the dinner table?*
Shit, Fuck, Piss: I had to say that because I can on this website. (Thanks Chef!)
QUOTE (chefelf @ Feb 23 2008, 10:30 AM)
That's what I'm here for.
#14
Posted 29 August 2007 - 07:51 AM
I have a brother who speed-reads almost every novel he picks up - and he tells me he can still savour them but I have doubts about that. I think reading something slowly gives you a more atmospheric experience. However, on the flip side, reading something faster gives you a bit of momentum too.
To tell you the truth, when I read the 'Thrawn' trilogy this time, I actually went through the books quite quickly - and in doing so, it felt as if I was watching movies...
... but then again, I've read them so many times, I'm already familiar with all the detail so maybe that could be it.
I don't know exactly what I'm going on about here but anyway.
Enjoy.
#15
Posted 29 August 2007 - 02:34 PM
A much better job than I would have, given that I've never actually read any of the EU novels. I just don't like what I've heard of them, not even the Thrawn trilogy (sorry, Movie Goer). I'd rather imagine that Star Wars finished with RotJ and stick to my own ideas about what happened next.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People