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Maybe the Jedi really were evil? just an obersavation

#1 User is offline   Storm Shadow Icon

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 01:53 PM

Okay here is what I have gathered.

In the opera scene, Palpatine advises Anakin that people with power only want one thing....more power, and more importantly, keeping that power. Anakin tells him the Jedi arent like that and blah blah whatever...

so fast forward to the part where Windu says "I sense a plot to destroy the Jedi (wow good job dectective....it only took you 2.5 movies to figure this out. Some Master you are.)....if Palpatine does not give up his emergency powers we will have to take control of the Senate." Yoda tells him immediately after "To a dark place this line of thinking may lead us." This is one of the most overlooked lines in the movie and I'm surprised no one points it out.

Anyways..

Now we're at the part where Mace kicks Palps right in the chest and has him by balls. Mace is ready to take this old fuckers life and is trying to justify the murder by saying he has control of the Senate and courts. Anakin is trying to talk sense into him and even reminds the wise old master of the Jedi code: The Jedi do not kill their prisoners! Mace is not trying to hear it and raises his saber to deliver the death blow. We all know what happens from that point.

NOW....if you were Anakin, knowing what Palpatine has told you about those with power, and you have just run into the room seeing the Jedi master who has talked down on you and never trusted you from day one with your friend and mentor on the ground ready to kill him...what would you think?

if you ask me, Windu was on the path to the dark side and he would have dragged the Jedi council down with him. I honestly believe this. Yoda even tells him, taking control of the Senate would be a most un-Jedi move and it could lead them down a dark path. I think Palpatine was right all along; Mace was becoming power hungry and was not only willing to kill Palpatine, but also to usurp his throne and use it to strengthen the Jedi order. There would most likely have been a split at this point, a civil war between dark and good Jedi. So bravo Palps, I salute you for your wisdom.
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#2 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 02:59 PM

Jedi in the PT suck.. except a few ones.

This post has been edited by SithAvenger: 19 June 2005 - 03:00 PM

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#3 User is offline   barend Icon

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 09:23 PM

jedi evil?


works for me...

but they don't seem smart enough
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#4 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 19 June 2005 - 11:55 PM

From the behavior of the Jedi in the PT, their supposed 'ideals' and everything that ROTS has shown us, I would think that the Sith might actually have more good in them than the Jedi.

Either that, or the Jedi have become so corrupt that maybe it was best for them to be wiped out... and to reemerage as good guys again. But I guess this is a case of bad writing and even worse imagination.
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Posted 20 June 2005 - 03:34 AM

Can anyone look at the exp​ression on Mace L. Jackson's face when he seems to have Palpy on the ropes, and tell me he doesn't have more than smattering of anger and hate in him at that moment?
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#6 User is offline   Hari Seldon Icon

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Posted 20 June 2005 - 06:52 AM

QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ Jun 19 2005, 06:53 PM)
There would most likely have been a split at this point, a civil war between dark and good Jedi.


"between african-american and good jedi" - be politically correct, will ya!

...

Or... nabooian-tattoinian... err... nubian-kashyykian... err... macian-windunian?

...

Never mind. And may the pants be with you.
"I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God and other objects-of-faith are outside reason and play no part in rationalism, thus you don't have to waste your time in either attacking or defending."

Isaac Asimov
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#7 User is offline   LiocModnar Icon

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:08 AM

Everybody has stakes and interests, the difference between groups lies in who acknowledges this fact and what they do with that knowledge.

The Jedi claim to be keepers of the peace and not soldiers, yet they adopt the title of General. As soon as they turn into soldiers, there is the reality that they will kill people and morality will be twisted for justification. They also have an interest in wanting to keep their temple funded and so they'll go along with the plans of the Senate when it's prudent.
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#8 User is offline   CowboyCurtis Icon

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 11:36 PM

Not evil just stupid....
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#9 User is offline   Michel Orla Icon

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:33 AM

Simple put, Lucas didn't know what the hell he was doing when he started making Jedi philosophies for the PT. If all Jedi were to have no emotions whatsoever they'd be damn boring. Honestly, if you read the EU and novels that take place 10 years after ROTJ Luke gets a bit boring because he no longer has that anger that made his character interesting and gave him an edge. Lucas's ideal Jedi is nothing more than a boring asshole
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#10 User is offline   THX-1138 Icon

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Posted 22 June 2005 - 12:45 PM

Well, as to the anger in Mace, it should be noted that, as a user of form VII, he uses his emotion in fighting. This technique is actually considered to be very close to the Dark Side, and takes a powerful Jedi to master. Most who try are sucked in by the power of the Dark Side. Though I'll give you that the Jedi could very well be evil.
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#11 User is offline   SithAvenger Icon

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 12:26 AM

Jedi are evil... all of them. Even the younglings. devil.gif
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#12 User is offline   THX-1138 Icon

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 08:12 AM

The younglings had it coming, let's face it.
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#13 User is offline   Jordan Icon

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 01:07 PM

The Jedi were not evil. It would have made good story if they did turn bad. If not bad, then openly and noticable arrogant.

The Jedi of the PT were poorly written. They suffered from flat and static character dynamics which are of course are provded by the weak efforts of Lucas and his band of yes men lackies

Imagine, you having the power to write 3 stories set in a time when JEDi are all powerful. IMagine that, how much fun would you have? How creative would you be? Makes me cringe to think of all the lost oppurtunity
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#14 User is offline   Storm Shadow Icon

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:33 PM

yeah but it seems to me Lucas wrote the Jedi that way because he wanted to show exactly why the Order fell apart in the first place. I see alot of people saying "the Jedi are arrogant pricks, they're selfish, they're idiots, etc".....perhaps this was all done intentional? Thats what I get out of it. They grew too comfortable in their power and their vaunted "Jedi Code", and this led to the inevitable demise of the Jedi.
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#15 User is offline   dougte Icon

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:55 PM

What kinda bothered me was that a few of the first Dark Horse comics and a few of the expanded universe books that I read (maybe 13 years ago?) were really cool. I remember reading them and thinking, "Damn, this would be a kick-ass movie!"

I think Lucas's overall vision is genius. I think that if he delegated a few jobs to top-notch people and checked in every once-in-awhile to make sure they respected the material these movies could have been stellar.

George, how about this:

1. Hire a proven writer.
2. Hire a proven director (hell, try to convince your buddy Steven to direct if you don't trust anyone else)
3. Stick to the speical effects, but nothing more than the director asks for.
4. Have a few test screenings.

Walla! Instant improvement.
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