Chefelf.com Night Life: OT (Un-Retouched)=Minimalism, PT=Maximalism - Chefelf.com Night Life

OK, so I know the term "maximalism" isn't really used to describe an aesthetic the way "minimalism" is, but I'm coining it that way.

If two words could sum up the OT for me, those would be "economy" and "simplicity." Economy of characters, economy of dialogue, and economy of effects. Simplicity in plot and concepts. Ideas aren't overexplained; secondary characters remain secondary; landscapes and backgrounds tend to be sparse and uniform. The galaxy seems more vast because unrelated characters aren't constantly bumping into each other by miraculous coincidences. There are some genuinely quiet scenes. The story is remarkably easy to grasp, but based on grand themes that hold up well to dissection and scrutiny.

If two words could sum up the PT for me, those would be "clutter" and "busy-ness." Everything is moving, all the time. Quiet moments are inevitably interrupted. When it would suffice to show one of something in the background (a ship, a droid, whatever), a dozen are shown instead. When it would suffice to show a dozen, a hundred are shown. Every secondary or tertiary character seems to be clamoring for screen time. Whenever two or more characters could possibly have some connection, it is exploited to the hilt. The story is needlessly complicated, based on flimsy concepts that fall apart upon closer inspection.

All other nitpicks aside, I will always prefer the OT for its admirable efficiency. It's just too hard to focus on anything in the PT because there's always some needless distraction.

That is a really good analysis of both.

Yeah, but that's the good thing. 1-3 weren't just 4-6 re-packaged. It would've sucked if they were. I don't want to see re-packaged 4-6, I want to see new angels. The contrast between the bleakness and simplicity of the time of the Empire and the thriving "business" of the Old Republic is good. It gives a perspective of what kind of civilization was lost, and what the rebels were even fighting to regain. It's like the Wizard of Oz in that 1-3 showed a colorful galaxy, while 4-6 show a black and white galaxy.



I don't follow how you conclude that when Vader, Luke and Leia do exactly what you just said. Also, "miraculous coincidence" is just another way of saying "fate". So, if destiny is the rule- there's nothing "coincedental" or "improbable" about any of it. In fact, it's not only probable- it's unavoidable.

I wouldn't have as big of a problem with that if it were done in a less distracting way. Two characters should be able to engage in dialogue without two thousand things moving in the background. A couple of establishing shots could show the technology just as well. Doesn't need to be in every shot.

Another problem, as others have noted, is that the huge difference in technology causes a lot of inconsistency between the PT and the OT. Suddenly the Empire seems to have lost many crucial elements of its own technology. And that doesn't make a lick of sense. Also, it seems highly unlikely that the technology would change so radically (and for the worse) in the span of only 20 or so years, war or no war. I mean, even people in Earth's poorest neighborhoods today have cellphones and modern cars. It's not as though they've been relegated to rotary telephones and jalopies.




Well, you have a point in the sense that all fiction involves a certain baseline of coincidence. I mean, that we as an audience just happen to "meet" the characters that we meet, and do so in the middle of the action, is a certain kind of meaningful coincidence, and goes along with the willing suspension of disbelief.

But there is a delicate balance between this kind of coincidence and additional, extraneous coincidences being thrown in like so many dei ex machina. Attributing it all to "fate" is just using a catch-all, pat excuse that could be used to explain away any weak fictional element.

I'd say GL was stretching it a bit when he decided to make Leia Luke's twin sister. It seems like an afterthought and makes for some inconsistency in the OT.

That Luke is Vader's son is less of a superficial coincidence. The relationship between fathers and sons is one of the time-tested, grand themes of fiction. Plus, it's not as though both of them are unaware of their connection. Only Luke is. If they both happened to find out by accident that they were father and son, that would be pushing it.

Drawing unlikely connections between major characters and minor characters adds little to the story, and draws the audience out of the story to boot. Especially so when the story is on a galactic scale.

Let's say you're Luke Skywalker. How likely is it that the alien who tried to collect the bounty on your smuggler friend just happened to be a childhood playmate of your dad? And that your Jedi master just happened to be old friends with a close friend of your smuggler friend? And that yet another bounty hunter out for your smuggler friend just happened to have been a clone of still another bounty hunter who once engaged in combat with your mentor, and whose twin brothers all served in the trooper battalions who once rescued your mom, your dad, and your mentor from extermination but who later went on to hunt down all the Jedi and were the precursors to the Stormtroopers?

Fate, maybe. If "fate" is a synonym for lazy, sloppy storytelling.

This post has been edited by Devout Catalyst: 28 May 2005 - 06:52 PM

Lucas has even attempted to throw "maximilism"(Great word by the way) into the classics. The Vader shuttle run from Bespin to the Star Destroyer (which we all know is just stock footage from ROTJ) is awful. Not only does he elimate "Bring my Shuttle" (A simple line that said so much. Think about it. Vader just lost Luke, and all his prisoners are escaping. He's pissed! He doesn't have time to politely say, "alert my Star Destroyer...blah...blah"), but besides that, I guess he thinks we all had trouble figuring out how get got back to the ship.

One more think while I'm at it. While watching the prequels, I wondered how Anakin, who was portrayed as a complete moron, would turn into the cunning, wise, crafty, intelligent Darth Vader. Thank God, Lucas took care of that in the ESB S.E. By inserting the new dialogue in scene with the Emperor, (the Emperor tells him that Luke is Anakin's son and Vader says, "How is that possible".) Who did Vader think this Skywalker was? Did he think he was one of the Chicago Skywalkers? Didn't the Empire's intelligence figure out that he was on board the Falcon that was captured by the Death Star and was brought there with Obi-Wan? Didn't he remember that his wife was 9 months pregnant when she died? Vader couldn't do the math? Well, now with the S.E. change, Vader is a dumb ass too. So he's perfectly consistent with the Anakin of the PT. Good job, George.

Wasn`t Vader playing dumb in front of Emperor?

No.
No.
He was rewritten in a dumb way though.

Dark Lords of the Sith can deceive, but not play dumb - also the use of the "search your feelings" means that when "I am your father" comes around the scene is much weaker because we have a strange sense of deja vu - effectively the Ian Mcdiarmid in SE ESB killed the stronest point of the film. Clappity clap clap - it also doesn't help that there was line-for-line plagiarism into Dooku & Obi-Wan in Clones.

No No, your missing the point. He's right. The PT is over-the-top. lucas forgot that "Less is More." I don't see how you can automaticaly conclude that episodes 1-3 were the only alternative ways to present star wars differently and more fresh than episodes IV-VI.

Reply to Henchman:

Henchman, your ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! You can't attempt to rationalize it with stupid fate hypotheticals etc etc. Lucas has simply made the galaxy seem smaller. HECK! its a friggin galactic family reunion!!! Anakin built C3P0, The template for the clone army was boba fett's daddy (WTF, now Bobba is no longer some ananymus 'scum of the universe' bounty hunter!...now he's a sensitive daddy's boy...), luke is technically royalty (or implied to be high standing) and his mom was a queen, Yoda was friendly with the wookies, and now there's a young GREEDO, yes an actual young GREEDO (Han's unlucky assailent at the bar) fighting anakin and people are saying to him "Your going to come to no good etc." What the Hell!...the list goes on. You CAN NOT argue with that!

This post has been edited by Darth Sane: 31 May 2005 - 02:26 PM