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Jesus Death - Suicide? Did Jesus commit suicide and if so ... is he in hell?

#1 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:59 AM

So ... don't know how to broach this but ... did Jesus commit suicide and if so is the Messiah in hell? Just throwing it out there
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#2 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:40 AM

If the legends are true, then he obviously didn't commit suicide, but there is that bit where he reportedly uttered "Father, why have you forsaken me?" shortly before his death.

Always wondered why people let that slide so easily. I mean, he based his fame on him being the son and knowing exactly what was going on and what dad had in mind for the world, and then he just lets his tongue slip and practically admits to not having a damn clue about his intentions.

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#3 User is offline   Spoon Poetic Icon

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:52 PM

I honestly don't see how anyone could mistake the story of Jesus's crucifixion as suicide, but pertaining to Gobbler's question, Jesus is actually quoting a Psalm.

The Hebrew of the passage in question - Eli Eli Lama sabachthani- literally means: God, God, depart from? or God, God, abandon? (as a question).

So really it could even mean something different from what everyone's been taught, which is usually based on the King James Version - which if you know anything about biblical translations, you know is actually quite mistranslated.

http://en.wikipedia....you_forsaken_me

Dude was in massive pain. He could have said something even sillier and I think the Christian masses would have let it slide. :P
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#4 User is offline   Supes Icon

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 12:01 AM

I think it's more a case of Jesus - How to turn a failed attempt at faking your own death into a world wide religion. I mean we have all these reported sightings of Jesus wandering around the country side after he has been laid to rest. Overall it's a pretty good effort at covering up a really bodge attempt at faking your own death. Clearly the get away plan was not so well thought out and people just kept on recognizing him as he strolled out of town. So what better way to stave of inquiring Roman legal minds... Resurrection! Then make sure you get yourself well and truly hidden and never ever get seen again. Always a good idea to cap off a resurrection with a good Ascension!
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#5 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:55 AM

"I honestly don't see how anyone could mistake the story of Jesus's crucifixion as suicide, but pertaining to Gobbler's question, Jesus is actually quoting a Psalm."


I suppose what makes Jesus death comparable to suicide is that he not only knew he was going to die and did nothing to thwart his death but in fact helped the course of events along by telling Judas (at the Last Supper) to basically hurry along with the betrayal. If he really felt he was doing others a service through his death then perhaps it could be classed as suicide with a noble purpose ... but suicide all the same.

Also ... isn't it interesting that in Mark (generally considered the earliest gospel) Jesus seems far more human and far less divine with regard to the cruxifiction - he seems to be acting a hell of a lot more like someone wondering whether this was all going to go to plan (that God would intervene and save him) than a divine being who was certain of coming events.

If he is in hell however I assume that makes it a whole lot less horror inflicting, like adding cold water to hot to make nice lukewarm water/infinite punishment
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#6 User is offline   civilian_number_two Icon

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 06:09 PM

You're crazy. Patrick Bateman. I love it.

Jesus knew he was to be killed for the things he was saying, and he refused to renege on them when given the chance. That is martyrdom, not suicide. Like if you were captured by enemies to your faith/people/army, and under duress you were given an opportunity to sell your people/country/beliefs out in exchange for your life. Refusal to do so is not suicide.
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#7 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 07:20 PM

View Postcivilian_number_two, on 18 December 2009 - 06:09 PM, said:

You're crazy. Patrick Bateman. I love it.

Jesus knew he was to be killed for the things he was saying, and he refused to renege on them when given the chance. That is martyrdom, not suicide. Like if you were captured by enemies to your faith/people/army, and under duress you were given an opportunity to sell your people/country/beliefs out in exchange for your life. Refusal to do so is not suicide.

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#8 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

I can understand the refusal to renege on beliefs etc to be defined as martydom - eg William Wallace - but Jesus knew he was to be captured and in fact expedited his capture, the very definition of a 'death wish' and what is a 'death wish' if not a prelude to suicide?

That said, I would love to see a new biblical epic directed by G Lucas where Jesus and the Disciples are played by little people.

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#9 User is offline   Ninja Duck Icon

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 02:20 PM

Maybe GL will do a remake of Passions of the Christ.

Jesus didn't kill himself; he sacrificed himself as Civ explained. Although Jesus didn't resist his death, to say that he was suicidal and therefore in Hell seems like splitting hairs.

Is it accepted that suicidals necessarily go to Hell? I thought that was Catholic tradition. (As in, within the Catholic dogma, not that it's Catholic tradition to commit suicide.)

This post has been edited by Ninja Duck: 21 December 2009 - 02:21 PM

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#10 User is offline   steje73 Icon

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 03:59 PM

Well, as Neil said in UK comedy show The Young Ones, if you want to crucify yourself it's really hard to get the last nail in.
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#11 User is offline   Patrick Bateman Icon

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 06:50 AM

I would love to see G Lucas's take on Passion of the Christ ... in fact I would be prepared to wait another decade for Howard the Duck II if only to make time for G Lucas's: Christ Wars!
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#12 User is offline   J m HofMarN Icon

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 12:03 AM

Bollocks to you, Bateman. I don't need to learn about how great Jesus was at racing CGI chariots when he was six. Please never take steps to encourage The Holy Bible, Episode 1. As an aside, I'd complain about a blatant flame bait topic, but at least its something to do.

Next question: Did Jesus create religion? If No Jesus means no peace, do wolves know peace?

Bonus question: Was Jesus a wolf? What about a furry?

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#13 User is offline   Deucaon Icon

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 09:54 AM

Christ was probably referring to his powers, seeing as how power and God are interchangeable in Hebrew. It was obviously lost in translation when it was translated into Armenian and Greek. His powers, by the way, were probably taken away by God in order to sike Jesus. "Ha! You should've seen your face when they were nailing you." (Yes, I get see double entendre. I hate the person or people who invented double entendres. I just hate them.)
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#14 User is offline   Gobbler Icon

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 07:35 AM

View PostDeucaon, on 26 March 2010 - 04:54 PM, said:

Christ was probably referring to his powers, seeing as how power and God are interchangeable in Hebrew.

Now now, let's not make up facts to suit our argument.

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#15 User is offline   Deucaon Icon

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 08:40 AM

View PostGobbler, on 07 April 2010 - 10:35 PM, said:

Now now, let's not make up facts to suit our argument.

What argument? I'm just stating a fact.
"I felt insulted until I realized that the people trying to mock me were the same intellectual titans who claimed that people would be thrown out of skyscrapers and feudalism would be re-institutionalized if service cartels don't keep getting political favors and regulations are cut down to only a few thousand pages worth, that being able to take a walk in the park is worth driving your nation's economy into the ground, that sexual orientation is a choice that can be changed at a whim, that problems caused by having institutions can be solved by introducing more institutions or strengthening the existing ones that are causing the problems, and many more profound pearls of wisdom. I no longer feel insulted because I now feel grateful for being alive and witnessing such deep conclusions from my fellows."
-Jimmy McTavern, 1938.
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