snaithbert:
Quote
Why not just accept the fact that Lucas dropped the ball? Coming up with all these explanations doesn't change the fact that if Lucas had done the job right- we wouldn't NEED the explanations in the first place.
Well, I would do that if I thought it mattered. But it doesn't. Every work of fiction has inconsistencies that NEED explanations (if you're of a mind that inconsistencies need explanation). If I say Lucas dropped the ball, then, if I am intellectually honest, I have to say everyone has dropped the ball since all fictitius works have inconsistencies.
>>>
Quote
Because they're not good explanations; they're just feeble attempts to rationalise something that clearly doesn't make sense.
But, you see, that is why I am stating that it is, in fact, you (nothing personal) that is the intellectually dishonest of the two factions. Here is why: I have made points of possibility. You have stated a subjective "they're not good". Okay, so tell me
why they are not good.
I know what you are saying, but do you know
why you are saying it? Do you see what I am saying? Are your reasons 100% subjective- or is there any objectivity to them? Obviously, there is no point in a person who thinks red is the best color to try and argue that blue not the best color. There's no objective grounds for communication and discussion at all.
At least attempt objective argumentation where there is at least a common standard. Otherwise the argument goes "Sucked" "Good" "Sucked" "Good".
>>>>
snaithbert:
Quote
All we said was "this stuff sucks" not "someone EXPLAIN why it sucks."
Aside from the fact that I don't know who "we" is- can't argue with that. Really, the only reason I am here is because I've been banned from force.net and wanted to talk about the movies. And to kill some time while waiting for "lesbian cowgirls- vol 12: spanking the west" to download.
>>>>
modhatter:
Quote
Let's look at this passage from RotJ:
"When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong...."
For one thing,according to Ep1, Anakin was a good pod racer in one race (he'd never finished ONE before), and he was actually a terrible pilot who got extremely lucky.
Ben: In my experience, there's no such thing as luck.
So, Anakin was a great pilot to do what he did at such a young age.
Quote
But more to the point, when Obi-Wan is Qui-Gon's apprentice, he has not even gone through the trials. He is, in short, not being instructed by Yoda. Yoda even comments that Obi-Wan taking the trials at that point would be EARLY. And, later, when Qui-Gon is dead, Obi-Wan takes Anakin on as a Padawan. That is the relationship Qui-Gon had to Obi-Wan. Which is a blatant contradiction to the original trilogy, no argument about it.
The contradiction being?
Quote
Regardless of who came up with what, ChefElf has a whole long list of things George Lucas didn't get right, including a large number of contradictory events in the prequel series. Even down to the Obi-Wan/Ben question...
Chef Elf's "reasons" were very funny. But they were 100% subjective. You may as well list "1000 reasons to hate the color blue".
Quote
As you answered another point, yes, Leia's mother died when Leia was very young. But not at infancy!!!
How young is young? How long is long? What you're doing is taking subjectives and building semantic arguments on them.
Quote
Infants don't evenYet develop three-dimensional eyesight til about four months.
True. And there is no sound in space. Reason #1 to hate all space orientated sci-fi movies except 2001. But wait- THAT doesn't count, yes?
Quote
Yet Leia is able to remember that her real mother was "very beautiful. Kind, but...sad." So, if we take a HUGE leap and say that Leia can remember these things, we must also accept that her twin can too. Yet Luke says, "I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her."
No. "we must also accept is a false premise". Just because one person remembers something, doesn't mean that everyone else does, too. Why do we remember what we remember and forget what we forget? Who knows. That's just the way it is. I am sure you remember things and ask someone else who was there and they say "I don't remember that".
Quote
And, again... if Qui-Gon had actually learned these skills... why doesn't he disappear like Obi-
Wan and Yoda???
Why. That question gets asked a lot. Why didn't Vader sense that Leia was his daughter in e4 or 5? Who knows. Why didn't Ben tell Luke Vader was his father sooner? Who knows. Why didn't Greedo just shoot Han instead of sitting there giving him time to take his blaster out? Who knows. So, do e4-6 suck because all of your "why"s aren't elaborated upon?
"was i much younger when you trained me?"
Obi wan - refering to the mid twenties luke skywalker [ESB].
Luke was 18 in e4. We don't know who trained Obi-Wan before he went into the field with Qui-Gon. Obviously, since Ben says in e5 that it was Yoda, then it was Yoda. Yoda trained Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan went on missions with Qui-Gon.
Even at the very opening of e1 Obi-Wan said "But Master Yoda said I was to be mindful of the future". So, obviously Obi-Wan was being trained by Yoda at some time prior to being on mission with Qui-Gon.
This post has been edited by Dunedain: 01 June 2005 - 06:10 PM