Chefelf.com Night Life: European Constitution - Chefelf.com Night Life

I'm not sure if there are lots of Europeans here, but if there are, what do you think of the European constitution?

My answer is - who cares?

I certainly don't because I can't see where the problem is. I could understand that our catholic jihad guys wanted the God reference in it, just because they are fanatics.

But what the fuss is about now? The French fought for it with all their might, and now they reject it?

Why have constitution, anyway? What are we, Unites States of Modern Europe, or what? COnstitutions are not a very good idea . Usually they are outdated after ten years or so, and need amendments, and then amendments to amendments.

My country had the first constitution in Europe 1793. A lot of fuss is made about it, but people somehow overlook the fact that only after two years our country ceased to exist, swallowed by mighty neighours, and the constitution failed to prevent it.

Though not European I'll make a point here.
Constitutions do get outdated awfully quickly, and when a large number of nations get together to form a unanimous constitution the sheer mass of compromise means that nobody gets what they want. Also the mechanism of changing such a constitution would be by its very nature ponderous, so simply the time it takes amendments to take effect and the pressing need to make amendments would mean they would always be amending something.
Democratic nations need some sort of constitution - limitation and separation of powers and an electoral system, but the nitty-gritty of laws and rules, well - that's where most of the problems occur.
Still - anyone trying to badger religious prose into law these days should examine the bruises my boots make in their butt.

Ugh, just how tough your vibrams are, Mnesymone? I assure you, the butts of some of these guys are made of steel.

But you are making a good point though.

In a sense Europe already has a constitution; the treaty establishing the European Union addresses individual rights and separation of powers between the different institutions. This proposed constitution only brings about two major changes (thankfully not that religious stuff): 1) the European Parliament will increase their power in relation to the other institutions and 2) introduction of an exit-clause - i.e. it will become possible to exit the union whereas this is not possible today. These are no enormous changes and so it is fair to say that the main issue regarding the constitution is symbolic; attempting to promote the notion of a European identity through the sharing of a common constitution. I am quite positive towards a federal development so I am for the constitution, although from a legal standpoint it makes little difference.

I think they should just scrap the whole government thing, fuck the politicians, just go into anarchy

Don't want it. Amalgamating all the Governments and economies would be a mistake. Look at what the Euro did to France/Germany. Taking economic control of a currency away from a country is a bad idea.

Why is tighter cooperation and creating world`s greatest market bad idea?

Well, the US used to be a confederation of states with a weak central government, now look?

An example: The state of NY refused to raise the drinking age from 18 to 21 despite federal pressure from DC. NY said it was an issue for the state governments to decide. DC said, that's fine, you can decide while we cut off all your federal highway funds. NY acquiesced.

Now pretend Italy says, well we are going to continue to partially subsidize (i'm just making this up now) the structural upkeep of churches in Rome, as they are historic architectural works and have cultural value. Brussels says OK you can use your government euros for that, but we're going to cut off funds for infrastructure improvements until you stop. Italy decides not to subsidize, they fall into disrepair and a Saudi decides to buy the condemned building and renovates it as a Wahabi Mosque of peace. Bye, bye states rights, bye bye history, culture...
hello New World Order!

Wouldn't the countries lose a bit of their sovereignty since if they all adopted the same currency?

Is sovereignity a value in itself? There is no trully sovereign country on this planet.

Now don't go off on a philosophical tangent. Try to keep things focused here. Do you want Poland beholden to Brussels on internal policies? Because it's going to happen. It already does happen. Do you want politicians and the hordes upon hordes of lobbyists filling up Brussels to influence laws and measures which will effect you and your country? What's going to happen when Turkey says that they will not recognize gay marriages? Brussels will pressure them, cut off funds. The Turkish government will give in. The people won't give in. This is when the fireworks will start.
What happens down the road when powers keep getting siphoned over to Belgium, and Brussels says, sorry Pope John Paul II's day of rememberance is not a secular holiday, therefore it's not a national holiday? A strong federal government with centralized power gets its power by draining it from the confederated independent states. It's gradual. Spain is already under intense fire (rightly) for granting an ill advised amnesty while the rest of Europe is trying to bring illegal immigration under control. Do you really want to become like the US, I don't. Hence 'no' from me!

But is there alternative if Europe wants to keep with USA and growing Asian powers?

I wouldn't want to keeping up with the USA on the downslope.

Asia can be silenced with one word, one policy- tarriffs, steep, steep tarriffs. Free trade has been a failed experiment for developed countries, and a windfall for multinationals and profiteers.
A nation of a billion or so indentured factory workers depends upon 1 thing-low prices for exports. Let's see what happens when a 1000% import tax is levied on textiles, plastics, chemicals, steel,etc...

I get my shoes made in mongolia, that's what.

If the stuff that would happen under a constitution already does happen, then does it really matter?

And philosophical tangents can be fun, but somebody needs to remember the main topic. The point of separate nations is to keep a separate identity, so you have other countrys to make fun of.