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Deucaon: I've already proven that someone making a video before that person commits a terrorist act doesn't mean that person isn't crazy so lets just drop this part of the debate before I embarrass you further.
Yes, but the contents of the video can surely go a long way to proving that they're not. You're simplifying the statement to only be about making a video, while I made my remark to encourage you to view the contents of the videos, as they provide rational justification for suicide bombings, etc, hence proving that those in the videos are not crazy.
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Though I think the policy of governments (which usually involves the survival of that government) have more logic then that of terrorists.
I never did say that imperialism wasn't logical. Greed is logical to an extent, so is imperialism. The long term consequences it brings are not considered often, but yes, it's quite logical to rape the world for your profit as long as all you see is the profit. Evil, yes, but rational.
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Deucaon: Except Israelites bought the land of the Palestinians so if there was an expulsion of Palestinians then it was legal.
Regardless, since the act alone did nothing to curb terrorist attacks against Israel, it proves that Israel doing anything to appease HAMAS or other terrorist groups which want "Israel wiped off the map" is akin to feeding a crocodile before it eats you.
Please dont make me repost all the statements from the wiki article, complete with their cited sources. The Israelis forcibly expelled Palestinians, then passed absentee property laws which said that unoccupied land could be settled by Jews with NO mention of paying for it.
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No, sending Jews to concentration camps didn't constitute genocide.
So, only the Nazis who physically executed Jews are guilty of war crimes? Those who arrested them, transported them, inventoried their confiscated property, etc, are blameless for genocide or holocaust? And you have the nerve to call me an antisemite?
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Deucaon: Let me get this right... Vietnamese Catholics and capitalists were sent to concentration camps and fled the communist because... the US was involved.
Had the US allowed democratic elections to occur, Vietnam would have been spared at least 1 decade of war. Fewer lives would have been lost, fewer homes destroyed. And so people would have had less reason to leave the country. I don't at all believe that most who fled Vietnam did so primarily for political reasons. I think the fact that the US bombed their country into the stone age had more to do with it.
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Prove to me that the suicide bombers aren't "unwitting dupes." Prove to me that they aren't either consumed by hatred, brainwashed, retarded or children.
being consumed by hatred does not make one an unwitting dupe, it makes one quite willing. But if you believe that logic or reason are completely absent in all terrorists and freedom fighters than there is no way to prove otherwise to you. You believe it's perfectly reasonable for the US to kill millions of Vietnamese, but as soon as a guy sacrifices his life bravely in the fight against zionism or imperialism, he must be crazy, or somehow retarded/a child.
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Deucaon: ...because children cannot organize themselves because they cant comprehend why they fight. Which is what you would know if you had bothered to read the things you are arguing against.
So if children were capable of organizing, they would instantly rise against their parental oppressors and slaughter them? Why not? They're clearly very good fighters as you have pointed out by claiming that an army of children is equally preferable to an army of people who know what they're doing and why they're doing it.
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If you sit down with one they would go on a tirade about things that doesn't involve them or say that they are doing it in the name of a higher religious power (so that they may be accepted into their version of afterlife paradise.) If you sit with the other then they wouldn't either of those things.
Do you honestly believe this shit? I thought you were saying just a while ago that terrorists hate womens right, and its that reason that makes them blow us up. Now you claim that, if given the opportunity to converse with a Western voter, they would either just talk about their religion, and NOT try to convince us to beat our wives more often, or they would try to convince us to beat our wives more often and COMPLETELY IGNORE the fact that we routinely bomb and terrorize their countries. So, an Arab victim of US aggression is more concerned with whether I beat my wife than whether my country drops bombs on him.
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Deucaon: I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're half blind (and not incredibly stupid) as to not see that was in quotation marks. Though, if you look back throughout this debate you will see no mention of a suicide bomber not knowing what will happen when they push the red button (unless they are mentally retarded or children.)
So if they know what they're doing and what the results will be, how can they be an unwitting dupe? Also, I never want to hear about mentally retarded people or children. That has nothing to do with the overall subject of suicide bombing or terrorism, or anything except primary school or the special olympics.
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Deucaon: So they blew up the Twin Towers because... they are a symbol of American economic power? Which would mean there was no strategic reason to bomb the Twin Towers save for lowering morale (which only ever works in the minds of lunatics) which is the point of terrorism.
They were a symbol of economic power derived from imperialist aggression against Arabs. That seems a perfectly logical reason to me. And the point of terrorism is not to scare people. That's the point of Bush's public relations policy.
This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 12 July 2008 - 11:09 PM