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Oh my god.

#46 User is offline   Legion Icon

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 09:29 AM

To that I say, get bent. Yahtzee was not trying to make graphics to make you blow a wad in your shorts with 5DAS. You ever played Prince of Persia or some of the old point-and-click games like Kings Quest or Leisure Suit Larry? Do you know why those games made so much fucking money? I'll tell you right now, graphics good enough to make Elton John scream for love butter is not part of the equation.

To my understanding, Yahtzee is one of those rare and special people that believes games can be used as an artform; and those retro graphics were not the failed result of an attempt at F.E.A.R level graphics, you yutz. XDAS and TN look the way they do because Yahtzee created them to convey a particular level of awesomeness. And not only is it nifty to look at the graphics (partially because it actually requires you to THINK and use your imagination; which effectively rules out CounterStrike diehards from enjoying XDAS) but it can also convey a message. In my opinion it's saying, fuck the lightsabers and special effects and fuck your voiceovers and fuck your stupid multimilliondollar game studios; you don't need any of those to make brilliant and scary games that will fuck with your head.

In other words, I may just be a Yahtzee fanboy and you know what after playing through stuff that actually scared ME of all people I don't care. Yahtzee didn't do damn well for some for his field, he did pretty much exactly what he wanted and it rocks. If you think it's not as good because the graphical level is more synonomous with Jordan Mechner than Bethesda Game Studios then you should stick with games more suited for people who prefer graphics over gameplay.
I'm not pessimistic; I've just realised that the light at the end of the tunnel is an incoming train.
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#47 User is offline   CJ Marren Icon

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 10:06 AM

QUOTE (Legion @ Jan 16 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To that I say, get bent. Yahtzee was not trying to make graphics to make you blow a wad in your shorts with 5DAS. You ever played Prince of Persia or some of the old point-and-click games like Kings Quest or Leisure Suit Larry? Do you know why those games made so much fucking money? I'll tell you right now, graphics good enough to make Elton John scream for love butter is not part of the equation.

To my understanding, Yahtzee is one of those rare and special people that believes games can be used as an artform; and those retro graphics were not the failed result of an attempt at F.E.A.R level graphics, you yutz. XDAS and TN look the way they do because Yahtzee created them to convey a particular level of awesomeness. And not only is it nifty to look at the graphics (partially because it actually requires you to THINK and use your imagination; which effectively rules out CounterStrike diehards from enjoying XDAS) but it can also convey a message. In my opinion it's saying, fuck the lightsabers and special effects and fuck your voiceovers and fuck your stupid multimilliondollar game studios; you don't need any of those to make brilliant and scary games that will fuck with your head.

In other words, I may just be a Yahtzee fanboy and you know what after playing through stuff that actually scared ME of all people I don't care. Yahtzee didn't do damn well for some for his field, he did pretty much exactly what he wanted and it rocks. If you think it's not as good because the graphical level is more synonomous with Jordan Mechner than Bethesda Game Studios then you should stick with games more suited for people who prefer graphics over gameplay.

QFT
<!--quoteo(post=174818:date=Oct 14 2007, 09:43 AM:name=Cobnat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cobnat @ Oct 14 2007, 09:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=174818"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--fonto:Microsoft Sans Serif--><span style="font-family:Microsoft Sans Serif"><!--/fonto--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Lets all have sex with robots until our groins are sore and bloody!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=169306:date=Aug 10 2007, 11:03 AM:name=Legion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Legion @ Aug 10 2007, 11:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=169306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--fonto:Arial--><span style="font-family:Arial"><!--/fonto--><!--coloro:#483D8B--><span style="color:#483D8B"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->So why the unholy flying purple donkeypunching fuck will it not work on yours? Just what kind of machine are you running there? Your toaster?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And the man again!
<!--quoteo(post=180859:date=Jan 16 2008, 02:29 PM:name=Legion)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Legion @ Jan 16 2008, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=180859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In my opinion it's saying, fuck the lightsabers and special effects and fuck your voiceovers and fuck your stupid multimilliondollar game studios; you don't need any of those to make brilliant and scary games that will fuck with your head.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<u><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->My Getting Huge Progress (Gym and weight gain diet)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></u>
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#48 User is offline   zoozilla Icon

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 11:38 AM

QUOTE (Legion @ Jan 16 2008, 06:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To that I say, get bent. Yahtzee was not trying to make graphics to make you blow a wad in your shorts with 5DAS. You ever played Prince of Persia or some of the old point-and-click games like Kings Quest or Leisure Suit Larry? Do you know why those games made so much fucking money? I'll tell you right now, graphics good enough to make Elton John scream for love butter is not part of the equation.


Actually, when Prince of Persia originally came out, the graphics were pretty impressive (you can still appreciate the fluid animations today). But I do agree with your point.

Skip to the end.
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#49 User is offline   Joey Icon

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 02:03 PM

QUOTE (Legion @ Jan 16 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To that I say, get bent. Yahtzee was not trying to make graphics to make you blow a wad in your shorts with 5DAS. You ever played Prince of Persia or some of the old point-and-click games like Kings Quest or Leisure Suit Larry? Do you know why those games made so much fucking money? I'll tell you right now, graphics good enough to make Elton John scream for love butter is not part of the equation.






Hear, hear!

Having to use your imagination over having it stark bollock in front of you is so much scarier, because your mind fills in the horrible blanks worse than graphics ever could. Referring back to Beneath A Steel Sky, when you first come close to LINC, and see it growing everywhere, you begin to wonder, your mind begins to imagine the horrible detail in it. And seeing the sprite animation of it pumping blood through itself is just... somehow creepier. I couldn't ever imagine that same atmosphere being made with 3D graphics.

As an art form, sprites and sprite animation are fantastic. At the core of a game is story and gameplay. Whoever bought a book just because it had a nice-looking cover, but knew the book itself was crap?
...
Okay, bad example.
But you get the idea.
Graphics need to do the job. If, indeed, they do that job (as XDAS shows magnificently) then mission accomplished. You don't always need graphics only runnable [new word tongue.gif] on a supercomputer kept in a freeze room.

Smashed up my sanity.
Smashed up my integrity.
Smashed up what I believed in,
Smashed up what's left of me.
Smashed up my everything,
Smashed up all I thought was true,
'gonna smash myself to pieces,
I don't know what else to do.
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#50 User is offline   Casual Icon

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 02:20 PM

I like the graphics in Yahtzees games it reminds me of a simpler happier time, I miss pre-rendered backgrounds and sprites. I still remember thinking how cool the seven form boss from gunstar heros was, anyone else rember that game or is it just me?
QUOTE (arien @ Jun 29 2008, 03:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So this baby, while still inside its mother, murdered his twin brother and STOLE HIS PENIS.

That is one badass baby.

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#51 User is offline   Sniffles Icon

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Posted 16 January 2008 - 02:37 PM

I thought the Elton John comment was pretty offensive. Otherwise I agree.
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#52 User is offline   Legion Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 05:50 AM

Well sorry but that's my sense of humour Sniffles. Previous remarks include Michael Jackson and the semen stains magically vanishing out of the Pope's robes. If you find it offensive then sorry to hear that; but I'm going to keep making jokes like that.

Besides, aforementioned Elton John comment was a rather obscure reference.

Now then, to hammer home my own blatant naivety. Precisely what does QFT stand for? My guess is Quit Fucking Talking but I supposed I'd be better off asking just in case CJ just gave me an abbreviated version of the secrets of the cosmos.
I'm not pessimistic; I've just realised that the light at the end of the tunnel is an incoming train.
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#53 User is offline   Jenx Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 06:49 AM

Either that, but most people usually use it as "Quoted For Truth".

I'd also like to add into the graphics thing. Now, I like shiny and kickarse 3D graphics that look more real then life. But those are better for making movies then games.
I may sound like one of those "ah, those were the better days" old retro gamers (which would be very fucked up cos I'm 20, I've always been more of a casual gamer, and I started playing games when Iwas around 14-15 years old), but 2D graphics and sprites have a certain charm that 3D graphics still have to go a long way to convey. If you take 10 3D designers and make them, let's say, model a laughing face, they would all do it perfectly. Hell, their models would probably all look lifelike, if you give them enough time. But do you think they can do it with just 30-40 pixels and STILL make it look good? I don't think so.

Graphics should really be just an add-on to games. I mean, you make a game with an interesting story, good gameplay and nice ideas in it, and if it also has pretty graphics and good sounds - hell, even better. Back then people tried to think all sorts of things just to squeeze out the most of the technical limitations and make the game pretty. These days graphics are excellent, so having achieved that can't game makers just go back to thinking up good stories?

So, to end my rambling (which I'm not sure makes much sense, since it's early in the morning and I haven't even had breakfast yet), if anyone still dares to say that games can't be good without having good graphics, I have one thing to say to you: Nethack.

QUOTE (Ninja Duck @ Jan 15 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the film should be shot in sepia, because real life was in sepia in the 1990s.
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#54 User is offline   Joey Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 09:10 AM

Uplink.
Defcon.
Darwinia.

All of them use no textures, Uplink has not a 3d graphic in sight, Darwinia somehow made wireframe graphics beautiful, and Defcon, even though it's so cold, and quiet, really did make a chill run down your spine when the bombs began to fall.

Seriously, check out anything by Introversion software. It's modern old-school biggrin.gif
Smashed up my sanity.
Smashed up my integrity.
Smashed up what I believed in,
Smashed up what's left of me.
Smashed up my everything,
Smashed up all I thought was true,
'gonna smash myself to pieces,
I don't know what else to do.
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#55 User is offline   Jenx Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 09:47 AM

QUOTE
Uplink has not a 3d graphic in sight


Nethack doesn't HAVE graphics. It uses ASCII symbols to convey the dungeons smile.gif
QUOTE (Ninja Duck @ Jan 15 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the film should be shot in sepia, because real life was in sepia in the 1990s.
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#56 User is offline   avenging Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:25 PM

so wait..let me get this straight, i'm not allowed to have an opinion if i think the graphics suck? piss off...seriously...i understand that graphics are not everything, but my OPINION is that they suck, the story is fantastic, and the gameplay is good and aside from that it's a free game so i'm not really complaining, but bloody hell i am a graphic designer so i know a thing or two about it. the graphics suck...this has nothing to do with yahtzee as a person, as a game designer or any other piss ant complaint you might have...it's a fact, some people like them and hey that's cool, but personally i like good graphics in a game...me like shiny things daddy... i mean if i was really all that caught up on the graphics of the game would i join a forum where i could share admiration with other fans? oh yes and i wasn't implying that the graphics needed to be 3d super rendered...but hey

jenx falcon's eye and vulture's eye add graphics to the nethack engine and technically text is graphical by nature

This post has been edited by avenging: 17 January 2008 - 02:27 PM

When there are no heroes where will we turn?

i post without caps to annoy sniffles. kisses ;)
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#57 User is offline   Jenx Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:31 PM

Of course you are allowed to have an opinion. But this

QUOTE
personally, i like fp or 3p over the shoulder...i think the graphics are absolute shite in the series, but the story is so good it overcomes that...honestly i wish the graphic were a bit better than a 3rd grader could do.


Is not a way for an intelligent man to state his opinion. This makes you look like a douchbag and a moron, so people flaming you for it is expected.

I know about the graphic engines for Nethack, but text MAY be graphical of nature, but the game does not have any "graphics", in the meaning of which it's used when it comes to computer games. So, to quote you, piss off.
QUOTE (Ninja Duck @ Jan 15 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the film should be shot in sepia, because real life was in sepia in the 1990s.
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#58 User is offline   avenging Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:53 PM

hahaha touche'

just being a technical prick

oh yeah and i really do know third graders who have made graphics that look like that...and i knew someone was going to get pissed, but i really don't care either way if they like what i say or not...it's their right to have an opinion just the same as mine wink.gif people in the forum are just so easy to get going it's ridiculous
When there are no heroes where will we turn?

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#59 User is offline   Jenx Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:57 PM

Well, I am sure you will be easy to get angry when someone says something you like looks like *cough* "shite" *cough*. Like I said, you have the right to have a different opinion. Personally, I don't think the game's graphics are "good" either, but I like them because they are made like that for a reason. I am pretty sure that if he wanted to, Yahtzee could easily just spend more time and make more detailed sprites for the game. But he didn't.

And from what I see in the comments, people aren't angry at you for having a different opinion, but for voicing that opinion like you're some 12 years old.
QUOTE (Ninja Duck @ Jan 15 2008, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the film should be shot in sepia, because real life was in sepia in the 1990s.
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#60 User is offline   avenging Icon

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 03:01 PM

lol...you've read the other posts right? there is not a mature or serious person on this post... as an american me saying something looks like shite was meant to say "they sucked but eh..." we don't say shite over here...and yahtzee himself has said far worse about other games than the graphics look like a third grader...check out his clive barker undying review...


better yet check out the post lets all do something nice for yahtzee a few topics down...

This post has been edited by avenging: 17 January 2008 - 03:03 PM

When there are no heroes where will we turn?

i post without caps to annoy sniffles. kisses ;)
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