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The Pledge, the Turn... the Messiah? Another Look at Jesus

#1 User is offline   Bond Icon

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 08:57 PM

Recently, I saw the film The Prestige for the first time, and it got me wondering.

I know a little bit about Gnostic religious texts and such, and one of them describes the supposed sayings of Jesus, as told to one "Didymus Judas Thomas"; fittingly, the text is known as the Gospel of Thomas.

This gospel holds within it numerous phrases said in the Bible, but it also contains strange deviations. For example:

(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

But what of this Didymus Judas Thomas who transcribed the sayings? Why, he is in the Bible itself, of course: Doubting Thomas.

If we take a closer look at this man's name, we see that the name Judas, or Judah, is surrounded by Didymus, which means "twin", and Thomas, which also means "twin". His name could thence be translated as "Twin Judas the twin". Therefore, the title of his gospel means "Gospel of the Twin".

Why so much emphasis on this man's twinship, then? His name, with all its emphasis on having another twin, and therefore brother, is first mentioned in the text alongside "the living Jesus". Seeing as there are 114 sayings in all, this man Thomas must have spent a long time with Jesus, having written down a multitude of quotes by him.

We now move back to my first point: The Prestige. (A warning: for those of you who have not seen the film, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER.)

Assuming that those of you now reading have already seen the film, you all know that "[e]very great magic trick consists of three parts or acts. The first part is called "The Pledge". The magician shows you something ordinary: a deck of cards, a bird or a man (emphasis mine). He shows you this object. Perhaps he asks you to inspect it to see if it is indeed real, unaltered, normal. But of course... it probably isn't. The second act is called "The Turn". The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it, because of course you're not really looking. You don't really want to know. You want to be fooled. But you wouldn't clap yet. Because making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back. That's why every magic trick has a third act, the hardest part, the part we call "The Prestige"."

If you've noticed where I've put emphasis, you're probably wondering why. It's simple: after watching the film, I noticed striking parallels between the story told in the Gospels and the one told in the film; that being, "a man... [who] probably isn't [ordinary]... [does] something extraordinary... [y]ou don't really want to know. You want to be fooled... making something disappear isn't enough; you have to bring it back".

Sound familiar?

The plot point also struck my interest: two brothers, living the same life, as one person, in order to protect their greatest trick. In the end, one dies, and one lives, but people regard them as risen from the dead or such.

This made me formulate the very inklings of a theory, which I now present to you in finished form:

Jesus knew Judas was to betray him, so, in the Garden of Gethsemane, while the other disciples were asleep, he and Thomas traded places; Jesus would use some form of disguise to flee with the disciples as Thomas, while Thomas himself would be tried as Jesus, saying nothing but that which Jesus had taught him to speak in his own voice, else he be recognized as not being Jesus. Thomas was then hung on the cross, dying in agony, and his body was deposited in the tomb by Joseph of Arimathea.

Later on, secretly, while all were asleep, a party of followers, perhaps Joseph, Nicodemus, and Jesus himself, came to the tomb and bribed the guards to roll the stone back from the entrance and sneak Thomas' body out, bringing it to the home of Nicodemus. The other two in the party then tried to approximate the wounds of the cross on Jesus, using his brother's corpse as a guide. When all was finished, a shallow hole was dug for Thomas, and Jesus went back out to the tomb, to await any visitors who might come to anoint the body with oils. The rest, as they say, is religious history.


I know the stolen body hypothesis has been thought of before, but I believe this is the first to take Thomas into account.

So, what do you think? I'd like to hear your reactions.
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 12:48 PM

Thomas would be a big bastard if he wanted to help spread a false religion and even die for it to make it seem real.
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 01:11 PM

Cute concept. But I don't believe that's the way it happened.

Elvis also had a twin. Maybe he filled in at the funeral.

The Prestige as a film becomes more wonderful after you understand the twists. But the Christ story is stronger for believers who aren't hung up on knowing all the secrets (which are merely trivialized or "explained away" through gnostic texts).
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 01:50 PM

Des, I understand where you're going, but the Gnostic texts don't all corroborate with the Gospels. Indeed, several of them deviate as to Jesus' nature, and one contains a complete account of the resurrection: the guards see angels come down, and a talking cross comes out of the tomb! Clearly, not all are in agreement... blink.gif

QUOTE (Jordan @ Aug 20 2007, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thomas would be a big bastard if he wanted to help spread a false religion and even die for it to make it seem real.


Loads of people have died for this religion through the ages; what's not to say he didn't do it first? wink.gif
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 02:07 PM

Gnostic beliefs are WAY different than most Christian beliefs when it comes to Jesus. They don't believe that Jesus was divine, they believe that Christ kinda "possessed" some dude named Jesus for a while (in much the same way a demon would), and then when it came time for him to die, Christ left the Jesus person and laughed at everyone from Heaven because it's so hilarious that they thought they were killing him but really, they weren't! They were killing some random unimportant guy that Christ was just borrowing for a while. Ha! ... dry.gif

I find the Gnostic texts really interesting, and there might be some truth to some of it... Just like there's probably some truth to the Bible. But these texts, just like the texts the Bible came from, were all written a good deal later than the stuff in them supposedly happened.

Yes, I've deviated from the original topic a bit, but I'm hoping for a good religious debate. We're due for one, eh?

As far as Thomas goes, I've heard that theory before from some conspiracy website. I don't have any way to PROVE it wrong, of course. But I don't think we have anything to base the theory that Thomas was Jesus' brother off of, except that he spent a lot of time with Jesus. But so did Simon Peter, and all the other apostles. All the writers of the other Gospels, and even other books of the Bible and gnostic texts could probably count up a couple hundred things they heard Jesus say. Jesus undoubtedly had brothers, maybe some sisters too (even though many Christians would like to believe Mary stayed a virgin forever, the Bible actually mentions Jesus' brothers somewhere). But I've never found anything through all my digging to imply that Thomas was one of them. *shrug* Interesting theory, though.
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 02:56 PM

QUOTE (Spoon Poetic @ Aug 20 2007, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But I've never found anything through all my digging to imply that Thomas was one of them. *shrug* Interesting theory, though.


From Wikipedia's article on Thomas the Apostle:

Few texts identify Thomas's other twin, though in the Book of Thomas the Contender, part of the Nag Hammadi library, it is said to be Jesus himself: "Now, since it has been said that you are my twin and true companion, examine yourself…"

Also, Spoon, your version of Gnostic beliefs sound more like Muslim theology than anything else; they, too, believe in what you speak. Gnosticism was an incredibly varied movement and produced many ideas branded "heretical" by the Catholic Church.

Sad, actually, as some of their language can be as beautiful as what's found in the Bible:

"For Christ came to ransom some, to save others, to redeem others. He ransomed those who were strangers and made them His own. And he set His own apart, those whom he gave as a pledge according to His plan. It was not just when He appeared that He voluntarily laid down His life, but He voluntarily laid down His life from the very day the world came into being."
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 05:52 PM

People died for it believing it to be true. According to your theory both Christ and Thomas knew it was a crock since they had to hatch some fool proof scheme. Apparently Thomas was so hell bent on making this stick he offered to die in place of Christ, whom he knew wasn't a God, so that others could be tricked.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 20 August 2007 - 05:53 PM

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:40 PM

I've read most of the gnostic gospels and other texts. Yes, some is beautiful; yes, some coincides with the Bible. But I also read exactly what I just described.

Interesting about the Thomas bit; I must have not noticed that bit or didn't read that particular text.
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Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:39 PM

QUOTE (Spoon Poetic @ Aug 20 2007, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've read most of the gnostic gospels and other texts. Yes, some is beautiful; yes, some coincides with the Bible. But I also read exactly what I just described.


Hmmm, perhaps Islam was an offshoot of certain late Gnostic elements? unsure.gif
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Posted 21 August 2007 - 12:37 AM

This is great fun. I think when you're making stuff up, crazier is always better.

As for me, I think that Jesus was this charismatic and popular Rabbi who struck a nerve with the counterculture. Among his followers were real zealots who travelled around sporting concealed weapons and plotting to kill their Roman oppressors. Jesus caught hell for these associates and was executed after his follwers fled. Decades later, some folks compiled his saying and, as was common at the time, some of his followers deified him (you can't discount this; loads of Emperors before and long after Jesus's day were diefied, some in their lifetimes). I believe that Paul, a Roman by birth and familiar with this sort of gobbledigook, is responsible for creating the cult of Christianity, and the Gospel writers who were Paul's but not Jesus's contemporaries compiled sayings as well as pop-culture myths of healings and miracles. "John" much later pretty much invented the notion that Jesus's death was all part of his plan; previous Gospels hadn't put that together.

Subsequently, folks came up with ideas like Transubstantiation, Immaculate Conception, colleges of saints and prayers for intervention, appearances of Mary to poor villagers, etc etc etc.

Anyway, that's just what I believe. I was raised a Catholic but my confirmation name was "Thomas." Even as a child, I never bought a word of it.
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Posted 21 August 2007 - 01:20 AM

QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Aug 21 2007, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As for me, I think that Jesus was this charismatic and popular Rabbi who struck a nerve with the counterculture. Among his followers were real zealots who travelled around sporting concealed weapons and plotting to kill their Roman oppressors. Jesus caught hell for these associates and was executed after his follwers fled. Decades later, some folks compiled his saying and, as was common at the time, some of his followers deified him (you can't discount this; loads of Emperors before and long after Jesus's day were deified, some in their lifetimes). I believe that Paul, a Roman by birth and familiar with this sort of gobbledigook, is responsible for creating the cult of Christianity, and the Gospel writers who were Paul's but not Jesus's contemporaries compiled sayings as well as pop-culture myths of healings and miracles. "John" much later pretty much invented the notion that Jesus's death was all part of his plan; previous Gospels hadn't put that together.


Read this:

Link

I did, and it blew me away. wink.gif

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This post has been edited by Slade: 21 August 2007 - 03:30 PM

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Posted 26 August 2007 - 02:23 PM

Speaking of weird fringe ideas, anyone read the Germonik Scriptures in Final Fantasy Tactics? The full text is available here:
Text dump of FFT

Anyway, a strong theme in the game is something that is the equivalent of a gnostic gospel.
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Posted 26 August 2007 - 06:44 PM

Hmmm... intriguing... wink.gif
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