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So Basically Shmi Skywalker was..... a feeble minded gambling whore who was no good with money?

#16 User is offline   Paladin Icon

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE
It's still ridiculous that no one even tried to free her (or even thought about it, from what we can see).

Incidentally, what kind of 'labours' was she doing while she was young and pretty?


Some of her old masters DID think of freeing her, and she was heartbroken when they didn't work out (One time her master died and his relatives didn't honor his wish).

And as I said, she was used as a servant during her younger years. She just served and waited on people. This is the type of job that attractive people would be used for.

I read that part about her in an old 'kids guide to the Phantom Menace' it's been nearly 5 or 6 years since I read that part and as such, it's pretty sketchy, but the general idea is still there as to how she got enslaved and what her life was like before the movie.

It also said that the reason why slaves are so popular since they show off the wealth of the owners, as opposed to 'ordinary' people who use droids for their household tasks.
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#17 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 18 August 2006 - 01:17 PM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Aug 18 2006, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It also said that the reason why slaves are so popular since they show off the wealth of the owners, as opposed to 'ordinary' people who use droids for their household tasks.

Kind of like going from having (slaves) model makers who increase wealth, becoming (droids) automated computers who process a work of art with all of the insight of a washing machine.
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#18 User is offline   Helena Icon

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 07:59 AM

QUOTE (Paladin @ Aug 18 2006, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some of her old masters DID think of freeing her, and she was heartbroken when they didn't work out (One time her master died and his relatives didn't honor his wish).

After the events of TPM, I mean.
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The sandpeople had women and children. We know this because Anakin killed them how could he tell? The children might be smaller but I never saw a sandperson with breasts. Did they hike their skirts and show him some leg or something?

QUOTE
Also, I can see the point of wanting to kidnap a human and use her as a slave, but they didn't. They tied her to a flimsy easel for a month. It's assumed they had to feed and give her water. What for? Was she purely ornamental? I can understand them wanting the droids, you can sell those for a lot of money, but a chick who's only skills are finding non-existand mushrooms and getting randomly pregnant, you're not going to get much.

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#19 User is offline   StarWarsIsUs Icon

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 03:21 PM

QUOTE (Despondent @ Aug 17 2006, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Actually, she's the little girl from Waterworld, all grown up.

After that adventure, Shmee never wanted to be around water again which is quite understandable.

Kevin C. flew her to Tattooine (Because of her tattoo) and then ran into a female Calamari, who subsequently gave birth to Admiral Ackbar. Shmee's commenting every now and then "I hate Water" had cheery slave son Annie start saying "Well, I hate Sand" to try to wrest a smile from her cold and usually clamped lips.


Did you get that from an EU book or something? sick.gif
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#20 User is offline   Despondent Icon

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 09:14 PM

"Did you get that from an EU book or something?"


In respect to the prequel trilogy, I wrote it on the fly.
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#21 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 05:55 PM

Maybe there's a connection between the "virgin" birth of Anakin and the fact that the Jedis never tried to free Shmi from slavery? Let's say, oh, I don't know, that Anakin's father is actually a Jedi of some stature and that the last thing he wanted was for the mother of his son to have any contact with the Jedi council?

Say that Qui-Gon Jinn was the father. There's some logic to that. Qui-Gon might have done something impulsive like go out and get a pretty slave girl pregnant because he's a student of the "living Force" and, in Episode I, he does say things like, "feel, don't think - use your instincts." And that would explain how he and Obi-Wan just happened to find Anakin while they were on Tatooine - and if Anakin was Qui-Gon's son, that would also explain why he would have insisted on keeping Anakin with him, even after the Jedi Council told him he couldn't train Anakin.

If Qui-Gon is Anakin's father, then, it also kind of changes what we know about Shmi. Because that whole conversation she has with Qui-Gon about how Anakin just sort of appeared in her belly now has a totally different tone. She's not saying that because she's a complete idiot; she's saying it because she's helpig Qui-Gon keep the truth secret from Obi-Wan.

If you buy into this explanation, then, it does explain what Chefelf brought up in reason 38 in his "78 Reasons to Hate Star Wars: Episode I," how a wise old Jedi like Qui-Gon couldn't possibly have believed the whole virgin birth story. It's not that Qui-Gon just falls for some story; he knows the truth and he knows that Shmi is covering for him.

And, while Qui-Gon could take Anakin back to Coruscant with him, he couldn't take Shmi back because, after a while, people may start to wonder about what kind of relationship the two actually have. And, Shmi, being concerned with giving Anakin a better future, would agree to let Anakin leave without her.

Also, since Qui-Gon did have a very strange philosophy about the Force, one which probably kept him off of the Jedi Council, it might also explain why Anakin seems to exhibit certain character flaws that the council doesn't like; for example, allowing his emotions to control his actions.

Anyway, at least if this was the case then Shmi would seem a little more sympathetic and likeable than she is with the current storyline. But, obviously, since there was no subtlety in any of the preqeul movies, we know for sure that Qui-Gon is not Anakin's father, and, like it or not, Anakin was conceived by The Force, or something like that.

johnnycancer

This post has been edited by johnnycancer: 20 August 2006 - 05:57 PM

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#22 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 01:43 AM

Johnny, your argument is good, the problem is, George Lucas did not give such logic any credence. I thought Qui Gon, for all that he is a member of an order that is more or less celibate, seemed awfully sweet on Shmi. When it was announced that Anakin was free and leaving Tattooine, his first question to her was whether she would be all right.

I don't think "feeble minded gambling whore" is accurate. GL created a character that should have been more influential than she was, and killed her off as kind of a throwaway.

Palpatine was a manipulative bastard. There had to be SOME way he could have used Shmi to mess with Anakin's mind, such as making it seem the totally ineffectual Jedi wanted to do her in so she could not give birth to MORE powerful Force sensitives that could have overrun the status quo.

The suspicion should have been there, that neither a powerful, influential order like the Jedi could free her, nor could the very wealthy Naboo, which included the humans AND the Gungans as two NATIONS who were indebted to Anakin. And what about Palpatine himself, who was at the moment of this great "triumph" the Chancellor-elect? He, of all people, could have figured out SOMETHING to free her, and have her that much closer for using to manipulate Anakin.
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#23 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 04:10 AM

QUOTE (miladyblue @ Aug 25 2006, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think "feeble minded gambling whore" is accurate. GL created a character that should have been more influential than she was, and killed her off as kind of a throwaway.


Thanks for your response to my really long post. I think that this has been one of the really big problems with the new Star Wars movies. First of all, important characters such as Anakin's mother are sort of glossed over and thrown away without ever having any impact on the story. If Anakin had been an orphan it wouldn't have changed anything about the story and how it progresses (and, it probably would have enhanced the mystery surrounding Anakin, since he would literally have come out of nowhere to become the most powerful Jedi in the universe).

And, second, logical plot points were discarded, and, instead of getting any sort of alternate explanation of events, as an audience what we get is a really bare bones plot, with a bunch of loose subplots which are never wrapped up. So, at the end we don't have any sense of finality or closure. Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader. Big deal; we knew that from the opening crawl of Episode I. What we didn't know is the how and why. But, by the end we still don't have a clear idea of the answer to those two important questions.

Personally, given how much politics figured into the prequels, it seems like we would have seen more political intrigue, plotting, manipulation, bribery, trickery, and backstabbing. I mean, the Republic is basically supposed to be like the Roman Empire on the verge of Julius Caesar crowning himself dictator-for-life. The Jedi are basically like the Catholic Church right before the Protestant Reformation in Europe; they're a powerful religious sect that's highly influential in politics and holds several powerful secular positions; and they take themselves and their opinions very seriously. On top of that, the Jedi are an exclusive club; you have to be born a Jedi (midchlorians); there's no entrance and no upward mobility for people on the outside. More importantly, people are starting to question why the Jedi are afforded so much power and influence, especially with Jedi like Qui-Gon Jinn, who are basically running around making up their own rules as they go along, and don't seem that more noble or wise than any average person.

Given all of this, there should be turmoil and a sense of urgency in the movies; change is happening rapidly; the status-quo is going to be radically altered. But, we don't even really get a sense of this until about the last 20 minutes of "Revenge of the Sith."

And, the worst part is, we can't say, "well, maybe the director intentionally left this vague." We know for a fact that Lucas did not intend anything that was not explicitly shown in the movies. And that sucks, because you can't even effectively argue that Anakin's mother wasn't a "feeble minded gambling whore."

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#24 User is offline   miladyblue Icon

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 06:42 AM

It is hard, one way or another, to argue exactly WHAT Shmi was, besides the broodmare who squeezed Anakin out. She was apparently a good enough mother to teach him right from wrong, something that apparently didn't stick, if AotC and RotS are anything to go by.

Feeble minded? Well, she seemed reasonably intelligent, though that whole bit about there not being a father for Anakin suggests otherwise.

Gambling? Not much to go by there, either, considering how worried she was when Anakin volunteered to fly for Qui Gon. It does not seem that she had met with any of the bookies to place a bet, so gambling might not be something she was necessarily interested in.

Whore? This is a tricky one - how do you, the person reading this, define whore? Typical definition would be either a woman who trades sex acts for money, or one who is promiscuous. There is nothing really to indicate virtue, or intelligence, or lack thereof in this character.

THAT is the most frustrating aspect of these PT characters. Most of the ones who could have, and perhaps should have had larger roles were victims of what I call the "random dropped piano syndrome" meaning that they were sacrificed in really stupid, meaningless ways without ever contributing anything worthwhile to the story.
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#25 User is offline   mireaux7 Icon

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 02:51 PM

"Shmi" looks nothing in resemblance to Anakin,..Jake or Hayden,..they could have picked a better actress
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#26 User is offline   Lord Aquaman Icon

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE (mireaux7 @ Oct 7 2006, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Shmi" looks nothing in resemblance to Anakin,..Jake or Hayden,..they could have picked a better actress

They could have picked a more appearance accurate actress. I always thought she looked more like the mother of Natalie Portman's character than little Jake.
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I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
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#27 User is offline   TruJade Icon

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 05:20 PM

Yea, i supose she looked a bit like natalie.
but even though we are talking about TPM,
in AOTC the actors that portray padme's parents

look a lot like her or enough to tell that they are related.
So i think GL figured out that we weren't fooled by Shmi
and he had to do better. But had already cast her and thought

what the heck she dies in the next one anyway.
As for her and the 'virgin' birth,
that could've been what they where going for.

Shmi being chosen by the midi-whatevers
and Anakin was the saviour, the CHOSEN ONE.
Which seems to be a common thread in movies.

There is all ways the one.
Like Neo, Harry Potter, Frodo and well... Anakin, even Luke.
But the theory of Qui Gon being his father is possible.

It makes sense why the Jedi Masters
didn't want to cause conflict and questioning
from the Senate. Or perhaps They didn't want to further

distract Anakin from his training by having his mom near by.
Don't ask me why i'm defending Lucas' crazy ways
..but i am.

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#28 User is offline   johnnycancer Icon

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 07:33 AM

Oh, I think we've all been at that point where we just want things to make sense, so we'll try to come up with rational explantaions for whatever in the PT...

I never really gave much thought to the fact that Shmi doesn't look much like Anakin; but to be honest, in the vast sea of nonsensical things that exist in the Star Wars universe, this inconsistency is pretty tame compared to what else is out there.

I don't think that the virgin birth and it's connection to Christianity and its function as a plot device turning Anakin into a Christ figure went unnoticed by too many people. I think the problem is that it's just not very well executed, and allusions to Christian mythos seem rather inappropriate and out of place in the Star Wars universe.

I'd like to think that Qui Gon is actually Anakin's father, but, as with a lot of things, I know it's not true and that it was never George Lucas' intention to imply that it was. Why? As I said before, the movies just aren't that deep. They're pretty straight forward for the most part, and things are presented in pretty black and white terms for the most part. In the OT, I think that's part of the charm of the movies; there's a light side and a dark side of this life energy; you know who the bad guys are and who the good guys are; good wins; evil dies; good people who have done bad things find redemption; and, while it's not particularly complex, it does a good job of capturing the feel of old sci-fi serials without being overly simplistic.

Now, the problem in the PT is that you still have this basically simple universe, but now there's an attempt to make it more complex by introducing elements like the galactic senate. But the problem is, it's a really superficial complexity. And frankly, that's lame and half-assed; and there are a lot of good elements in the PT that could have created a more complex storyline, but they're wasted.

Oh, and just to argue a point, I don't think the OT Star Wars ever sent the message that "there is always the one." The OT simply chooses to focus on Luke's story; but Luke is not "the one" in the Star Wars universe. In the end, the Empire falls because of the efforts of thousands of people who chose to take action against what they perceived as an injust and illegal government. True, Luke does kill Vader and the Emperor (indirectly), but this only happens because he has the help of Han, Leia, and the entire Rebel alliance. And if Luke had died before he did what he was supposed to accomplish, then Leia would have taken his place; and if Leia had died, it's not like the Rebels would have called off the rebellion. The death of Vader and the Emperor and the end of the Empire would have happened eventually, regardless of the presence of Luke or Leia; it wasn't the fact that certain individuals did things; it was the fact that certain individuals did things as part of a concerted effort to bring down a government.

My point is, Star Wars isn't about some chosen one; Star Wars, the OT anyway, was about how good people will stand up and fight evil, but they can't do it alone. Luke needed Obi-Wan, Yoda, Han Solo, and Leia; it they hadn't been there, he would literally have been dead a dozen times over.

Of course, this all goes to hell once you get to the PT, because there is without a doubt a chosen one and his name is Anakin. Once again though, as with many elements in the PT, I just think this is sort of inappropriate and doesn't really sync up with what was in the previous movies.


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#29 User is offline   TruJade Icon

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 08:17 PM

Well we all know that the plot is so full of holes
and non consistencies that it makes me
wonder if any of the characters besides Anakin are really significant.

I mean did GL really write both trilogies or
did he just have 100 monkeys sit at typewriters.
As for Shmi there are far to many questions and no answers.

B/c someone won't step outta Skywalker Ranch and face the fans.
Personally i would rather believe
the 'Qui-Gon is his father theory' simply because
he wouldn't seriously make a reference or compare Anakin to Christ.

'Cuz thats a little wrong.
And it's much easier to understand the situation
if you look at the birth as the story of a travailing Jedi Master,
who found comfort in the arms of a poor woman.
I could really believe that.

Why else would Shmi be so trusting of the strangers her son brought home.
Trusting enough to let her son risk his life to help them
No mother, or at least no good mother
would allow any of that to happen just on a 'feeling'

Duct tape is like the force....

There's a lightside, a darkside

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