Chefelf.com Night Life: War against Iran - Chefelf.com Night Life

Abbey: That idea of socialism is highly outdated. There's no flat rate of pay for everyone, and more work does mean more pay. These days, people understand that other people are greedy and feel entitled to certain things, and you can't stand in a Levi's plant and make jeans all day and get warm and fuzzy because people are getting jeans for your effort. To counteract that, governments issue quotas, and incentives are given to exceed those quotas. The trouble is that it's hard for a government to know what the people need/want, and when a government has that aspect of control over people's lives, it's easy for the greedy to get into power and stay there.

Communism wasn't the problem, it was the fact that it became a front for dictatorship that's the problem.

Civ put forth a much more intelligent and adequate rebuttal to the classic anti-socialism complaint. It's a shame he's not here to repeat it, and I don't have any idea where it could be.

I'm not familiar with any new and improved concepts of socialism. Can you give me an example. The only one I know of seems entirely flawed as I have already pointed out.

I'll buy that. I think communism is actually not a bad idea - in theory. But I can't see how it could actually play itself out in a positive manner on a large scale, say for an entire country. It seems ideal for smaller isolated communities, where all persons involved would need to be in agreement. That said, fascism could also be seen as a good idea - in theory. Not to worry, I wont be posting any large, colorful illistrations of Hitler and his little blond groupies anytime soon.

Do you even live in America or do you just live in a world of Oz.



Do you guys even live in America... where do you guys even come up with this shit. CITE EXAMPLES. Preferably ones that have effected you directly.




Capatalism within America is free, its globalization that could be questioned.. if anything.



J M has no alternative to capatalism.. he lives in a world of theory which even in todays standards has shown that capatalism is better than communism even BY theory. As for socialism, almost all countries now have some socialist elements (income taxes). No where is actually PURELY capatalist anymore...



Yes it was. The reason dictatorships were formed was because no other form of govt can exist under a communist rule; and dictatorships are the least of the worries for a communist nation anyway.

I think there's a video on ebaumsworld.com in which someone with definitely too much sparetime beats Mario in eleven minutes. Dave's got to practice a little more.

Socialism + Capitalism = best form of government mankind has reached

Communism = Despotic shit holes run by dictators or hard liner fantatics that supress civilians, use military to shut down own civilians.

Let history and the current speak for itself. Europe, Canada, USA, Japan, Australia = Only places worth living in. They are all varying mixes of capitalism with socialism. Mankind has grown leaps and bounds under these forms of Government. People live longer, are more happy, and have incentive to work hard.

Communist/Facists countries such as Cuba, Russia (It's going backwards), North Korea, Iran, all of Indonesia, Practically every country in Africa, South America = Poor, maybe good health care but no incentive to work hard, perhaps surpressed, people will risk life to leave country and flee to one of the ones I mentioned up above.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 02 February 2006 - 05:20 AM

Oh, for fuck's sake...
That's what it came to in practice. If you had said 'Communism in Russia or China' - no problem. But the theory is not about the supression of civilians.

See, I agree with you here, so I'll just pretend I didn't see that other stuff.

Tito's Yugoslavia was a "Socialism + Capitalism = best" goverment and he massacred hunreds apon thousands of inocent people.



Communism= A Marxist based theory, there (to this day) has never been a communist goverment, only thing that comes close is a Socialist Republic.



Australia and the US arent socialist whats so ever, infact they discourage it... as for Europe, all off Eastern Europe isnt at all Socialistic, and they are crap places to live.



Russia is going forward faster then any other country that has taken the big step from one goverment to completely different one and it isnt facist at all (maybe a little ). You have a real fucked up look on 3rd world countries... for one the people there work hard, but get little, and there arent much jobs thanks to countries such as the US.


BTW, people who critisize countries they never been to (like my friend Jordan here) are fluffy pink bunnies, .

Edit: Please don't flame.
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator

This post has been edited by Slade: 02 February 2006 - 09:59 AM

Actually, I would argue that the democratic party in the US is a socialist party. They call themselves 'libral' but they have socialist ideals. The libertarians are actually more of a libral party than the socialist dems.

I have heard that pres. Putin is slowly trying to resurect communism in Russia. I don't follow that closely so I cant give any good examples.

Also, I have never been to France... but I bet I can still come up with a intelligent critique.

This post has been edited by Slade: 02 February 2006 - 10:00 AM

Trust me, there is no party in America that has the right to call itself socialist. I've read about the policies of both sides, and its almost insulting to even mention either in the same breath as socialism. Also, about Dave and Bob, there's no reason why Bob has to give up everything for Dave, but if Dave becomes a druggie and homeless drunk, lets say Dave kills Bob one day for enough money to buy some smack. Don't you think that Bob would rather help get Dave a job so that they can live in hamony, instead of being murdered? Its poor example I know but I was just working with what is already on the table.

Australia and the US arent socialist whats so ever, infact they discourage it... as for Europe, all off Eastern Europe isnt at all Socialistic, and they are crap places to live.

They are a blend of socialism and capitalism. By Europe I mean England, Fracnce, Sweden, Switzerland, etc... NOt ukraine, russia, etc..

BTW, people who critisize countries they never been to (like my friend Jordan here) are fluffy pink bunnies

ROFL, ya, like I have to visit every single country in the world before I pass an opinon on it. I think reading things can lead me to a good opinion. LOL.

I've had friends who've travel the world, my sister has been everywhere on the planet. Furthermore I live in Canada, I've gotten my fair share of China stories from all my FOB friends. I've heard bad things and read bad things.

[vTito's Yugoslavia was a "Socialism + Capitalism = best" goverment and he massacred hunreds apon thousands of inocent people.

ya, that's real representitive.

What about the guy who beat Super Mario 64 in 16 minutes?

Renegade-



What precisely are you suggesting be done exactly? You have a very clear path if you want to go kill Muslims, I mean hell there must be mosques where you live you can go light a cross on their lawn anytime you want. It's a lot more difficult for people who, ya know, don't want to cause terror and misery to get things done. I do more than you ever have to further my cause, and as passionately as you're arguing for capitalist tyranny it's pretty clear that it's your cause, so like I said, go join the army, or the Klan, or the CIA or whoever else's ideals you're espousing.



Au contraire, my flag waving friend. Your ignorance, hatred of Islam, lack of understanding of foreign cultures, ethnocentrism, and willingness to put the US and American life on a pedistal above everything else is exactly the stuff that led us into this genocidal war. And let's face it, you're clearly taking the Republican side, excusing nearly everything the US has ever done. Let's not forget that you're the one who termed the backing for the Pinochet regime and the subsequent mass murders as a "mistake" And you claim that it's not thinking like that which leads to wars.



I say murder, you say extrajudicial killing, I say torture, you say rogue military personnel, I say genocide, you say mistake, I say imperialism, you say colonising in the old sense. You always have a way of making things so darned nice and fluffy. As long as it's the US doing it.



Oh come on, most of the country dosnt even vote because they know its useless. You can't get change out of the two party monopoly which started out as an autocracy and has remained an autocracy. One day the government will fall, hell people like the Panthers and the Weathermen had the right idea in the sixties and were even able to attempt assassinations against some of the biggest criminals of that regime, such as Agnew and mayor Daley. I cannot help but think that a time like that will come again and the revolution will be successful. No government can last forever, stop reading into propaganda.



No wonder you hate Islam, you think the only Muslims are fanatics. Thats bull. If I went by that logic I'd have to punch every Christian I met in the face after some of the Christian websites I've reviewed. But the fact is that liberal members of religions are usually way better people than radical conservatives of that same religion. You have it backwards. Liberal progressive Muslims are the people who encompass the real spirit of the religion, and it's the same with Christianity.

Your intolerance knows no bounds. You act as if people deserve to go to hell for not wearing a damned scarf. You're starting to sound more and more like the radical religious zealots you hate.



Yes I did. I showed that the US government has ignored many UN resolutions as well, and that it therefore is hypocritical to go to war based upon that. As soon as George Bush and the corpse of Ronald Reagan are hung for war crimes and ignoring UN resolutions, I'll say that the US is allowed to enforce said resolutions, until then it's just kind of like having a policeman who sells crack. He might be enforcing the law, but only when it's to his advantage, and that does not justice make.



If they provided such papers, which I believe they did, the Bush regime would have and likely did just pass them off as forgeries. You can write or say that you don't have something, but it's impossible to prove it. Saddam could have let Bush personally stick a telescope up his ass to look for Anthrax and Bush would have just said that it must have been in someone else's ass. And here's another stunning piece of info:

Iraq was never under obligation to prove to the US that they had no weapons. They promised the UN, not George Bush. He had no business seeing any papers or documents they had and they were right not to show them to him. No country (except for apostate puppets like Saudi Arabia or Egypt) would show the US records of their weapons programs on demand, that's tyrany and it was well within Iraq's rights of sovereignty to conceal such information from what is and ever will be AN AGGRESSIVE, MURDEROUS IMPERIALIST POWER.



Must [have] been done? Well if you believe the Iraq war was a necessity and not just a war of choice there's no point in arguing with you. Just go watch Fox news and some of Bush's speeches until you drown in a red white and blue puddle of your own drool and unused brain matter.



Getting rid of Saddam does not require a massive invasion and hundreds of thousands of deaths. Clinton could not have been supporting the idea of a (let's be honest and call it what it is) unilateral invasion because he knew that the public of 98 would not fall for it. It only became possible after 9/11 and Bush, like the rapist he is, was happy to take advantage of the entire nation's weakened state of will. He raped the mind of the nation with his lies, he raped the treasury of the nation, not to mention the murders of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and brave freedom fighters.



He ordered intelligence to find evidence that Iraq had WMDs and links to terror. He made it abundantly clear that he wanted intelligence to this effect. Thus the use of shoddy sources such as a certain Iraqi exile, the forged documents from Niger, and the claim that an Iraqi official met someone connected to 9/11, all of which were unfounded and false and acknowledged as such even by career liars and murderers like the people at the CIA.

I agree with your dislike of sanctions, but I think the US should just let other sovereign nations choose their own governmental style. I certainly don't prefer sanctions but unlike you I'm not espousing just invading the nations that the US has sanctions on. North Korea would be a horrible and bloody war, likely nuclear though I certainly support the fall of that regime being brought about by its people, and as for Cuba I would give my life for the government of His Excellency against any aggressor.



Bullshit. The only two forms of government now available in Iraq are American puppet state and hard line Islamic regime, and let's not forget that Iraq has virtually no electricity, no police forces and no sovereignty, not to mention the government and the occupation's already poor human rights record. Iraq's future is going to be worse than it was under Saddam because it will now either be dominated by the US, or by Iran or it'll just be civil war.



You really should give credit in your posts. The statistics in the above sentence were provided by the American Society for Baseless Assumption.

Hey Jordan don't go saying that, Renegade will order you to leave Canada.



My canadian friend, whom spend many years in a canadian school system, says they teach kids how evil the east is and show them all the problems the east has with terrorism, poverty, and oppression - this is all linked to eastern communism.



Actually many of the Czars in the past two hundred years are well remembered for having increasued Russian power, and some of them were reformists as well. Lenin wasn't so bad either.



What oil plants does Cuba have? Do you even know why the US hates Cuba? There is no oil in Cuba, Jordan.

No, that other one... Super Mario 3, methinks... wait... umm... here:

http://www.ebaumswor...smb3beat-r.html

Edit: Oh wait, I've just noticed that I was way to sleepy to really understand that question of yours. Well, Super Mario 64 sucks, so it's not worth mentioning. And 16 minutes? Pu~lease... he could do better...

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 03 February 2006 - 01:13 AM